Someone I know from a company that makes wooden barrels asked me what kind of laser unit they would need to buy for making big logo’s like on the picture on the barrels. I’ve seen a few youtube videos on that but what would you guys recommend? They don’t want to outsource this but buy a laser unit so they can do it themselves. Any suggestions?
The logo’s they want to make are about 75-100 cm (92-39")
EDIT: I see I forgot to add the picture…
Won’t say you can’t do it, but it has lots of technical issues. First it has to be large… CNC machine to handle barrels are not something you can pick up off the shelf, so to speak.
If you do an internet search for this, you only see stencils, not anyone using a laser.
The area you advise is rather large and no Laser I know of would go around that size of a logo without it being on something like a rotary. That would be a large and powerful rotary. It would also have to tilt to maintain focus.
You would need either the above rotary or some type of machine that would allow the head to maintain focus distance from the surface of the object… this would mean something specifically designed for a fixed size barrel. Variations on the barrels I’ve seen, just plank to plank might be tough to get a consistent focus.
I have a stack of mugs I’ve pitched out, just testing them to ensure the proper settings…
Each barrel will, no doubt burn a bit different… they have all the attributes of a difficult object to engrave, size, material, not perfectly round and various, like humidity in the wood itself …
I think they would be wise to look at other technology and invest in a different type of labeling system…
The lowest cost way to do something like this is to make a rotary table with the rotational axes vertical and let the laser go vertically…
This is my opinion… I’m sure you could build one, but I think the costs are prohibitive to use this on a laser… how many barrels are they going to do… how much would that effect cost per barrel.?
You can get branding irons, that can roll around a barrel, not programmable but the logo could be applied at much lower cost without the technical aspects.
If they come up with something please post …
Good luck
Hi Jack, thanks for your input! The video’s I found were:
They are looking for a solution they could do themselves or find someone that could do this for them. My knowledge is quite limited, I know my CNC’s and am relatively new to laser machines but something like this would be a nice challenge for sure!
Just added the picture I forgot to send with my initial posting…
None of these logos are the size you mentioned… They all are either a flat surface, which any laser will do or there is only a slight variation in focus, probably handled by a long lens.
You can see the issue about 3:28 into the second video… That logo is much smaller than the 96" you mentioned earlier. It is also reaching it’s focus depth of field limits.
I also notice the one in the second video is from AP lasers, don’t know what this costs but it probably won’t do an image/logo as large as you wish… When you have to contact them for pricing, I know I can’t afford it.
I’d suggest the people looking at this call them and get an estimate, along with it’s work limitations…
How deep are their pockets?
Good luck
If there is room for compromise in the actual output and price is a factor I’d suggest a smaller diode laser that could either sit on top of the barrel when the barrel is put on its side or be suspended above it.
The size of the logo will be a challenge to maintain focus. However, if you can break-up the logo into smaller jobs and physically move the laser between jobs you could maintain reasonable focus. Getting a longer focus laser lens module will help with this.
The current logo will be hard to align without visible seams if split into multiple parts. However, if the logo were inverted where the letters were in positive that would make it much easier.
If you were to get a laser with a Z-adjustment you could use LightBurn Z-offset on a per layer basis to account for much of the Z-offset by placing the different letters on different layers. There are some products on the market now that have a Z-adjustment. If you had enough adjustment you could potentially do the whole job in a single run. However, the curvature is extreme enough that you’d likely need to account for the distortion resulting burning to a curved surface. That can be done mathematically or through trial and error or by using a distortion correction tool.
With a Z-adjustment I think you may be able to get a reasonable version of the current logo by breaking up the solid background into smaller focus zones. You’d have to experiment to see how many zones would be required.
Opinionated questions:
What throughput must they have to make this feasible? A (common / cheap) diode laser will take forever to do one barrel, so if they need more than, say, one barrel a day, they need enough capital for a laser farm.
Do they have funding / staffing to run the thing? “Doing it themselves” means having somebody trained & dedicated to wrangling laser hardware, plus somebody (else?) generating the artwork and prepping it for production. None of which has anything to do with making barrels, so it’s likely not a hire-from-within position.
Opinion
Owning a one-off custom CNC / laser widget probably does not suit their business, so building something shouldn’t be on the table.
Building complex non-core-business machinery is where small companies go to die.
/Opinon
If I were to make a “tool” for the logo you show here, I would go a completely different way. For this simple logo, I will have a metal template made and use a gas burner to burn the logo.
It is a cheap solution and can be used for many parts. The biggest gain is time saving, I think it will be at least a factor of 20.
…for a few pieces, you can even use a template made of wood or plywood, throw it in water between each production.
Wow, thanks for al the (prompt) replies! I don’t have more info yet but I will check with the barrel-guy…
That’s also a great idea!! I will pass that on!! Thanks!
4-6 barrels a week to start with. Side and lid…
Which reduces the problem to a CNC plasma cutter and maybe an air hammer to shape the plate. That, I like!
Extra machines in one’s workshop are always nice.
I think 1mm or 2mm max will be able to do the job very well. To bend it, no tools are needed, and to cut the template with a plasma cutter or a large laser will not cost many dollars.
I would like a large laser that could cut metal up to 5mm 
No, seriously, get an offer, with the number that was written about, it can be worth it.
Set up the laser like a horizontal mill:
Rotary table, Y axis.
Vertical travel, X axis.
In/out travel, Z axis.
In/out travel spring loaded with adjustable rollers to set focus distance.
Ballpark $125K to build one with 100w CO2 laser.
Insanely pricey C02 laser must be.
OP, just make a larger version of this
With the table of course being low to the floor.
And toss on the laser your wallet can handle. Maybe 300-500 tops for the machine minus laser
Some very interesting ideas for sure! I have told him to start working with a hobby laser first, het to know the ins and outs and learn how to work with LB etc. He agreed…
Thanks all for your input!
Yeah, that is going to take a lot of filament to support a whiskey barrel. But all the partscare in the right place. 
I burn whiskey and wine barrel heads with a ATEZR 20W. It’s 430mm x 430mm so it’s a nice fit for the barrel heads. I did have my husband make me a square base out of left over wood to sit on the barrel head to hold the laser.
Hi.
The top logo is trivial, almost any laser will do the trick.
I’d choose a mid-range ~20W optical power diode, at least for the feasibility study.
The sides on the other hand, that’ll be really hard to pull off feasibly from engineering standpoint.
In any case, an operation like that will require one person to operate and maintain the equipment full time, and IMO that’s where the desicion lies whether the logos create enough added value to the product to justify the cost of doing it in-house.
It will also require its own well ventilated space.
The easy solution would obviously be to get a quote for a production ready machne from the guys in the linked video clip 
.
Fortunately, those barrels look turned, cooper-made traditional ones would require a whole lot more work.
The surface contours of a turned barrel can most likely be calculated and programmed easily, so the focus will remain constant enough without adaptive/active Z-axis control.
This:
Is exactly the design that I would’ve suggested also if the marking has to be done in-house.
CNC turntables of all sizes and capacities for automated/semiautomated welding for example are readily available, as are XY(Z) beds, controllers, etc.
Even though I’m a diy’holic, as a BEng Mech. I do not recommend rollin’ Your own from ground up in this case.
Can be done, but is very tricky to pull off feasibly.
That kind of an approach does obviously require quite a bit of tinkering, and especially careful pre-planning before purchasing the separate components so everything actually works together, but the same head that came with the laser for the lid, can be used for the sides as well if required.
Or better yet, if both have their own heads, both may run simultaneously if the motion sensors (should be mandatory) on the lid-laser are turned off, and the coriolis effect is taken into account when choosing the speeds, accelerations and decelerations.
Good luck, You and Your friend are going to need it before the production flows 
.
Regards,
Sam
Challenge accepted. lets toss a max price tag of say 500? on it minus the laser (personally think i can do it for 250 with a metal bed)
nema23’s with gearbox for the bed, a simple roller system to keep the right gap due to the curve, I will be cheating and using rollerblade wheels etc for the bed of course.
I should edit this post to note I also have all the fab tools and my laser I made to learn with is 1000x500, so i can engrave the patterns and use my harbor freight special grinder to do the pieces and weld them up.
