Hi
I have a lot of designs in Corel that I can send to Universal and Epilog lasers without any issues when they etch. When I send them via Lightburn to a chinese laser the etch doesn’t work properly.
The problem is where there are overlapping segments, black on black, and in these areas the machine doesn’t etch ie it’s as if black on black cancel each other out? I hope it’s just a setting in Lightburn, what am I doing wrong?
Can you post screenshots of the design in LightBurn or even better, a .lbrn file where this is happening?
Here is an example of a font, Embassy BT. The top is a standard etch, the one under is in outline mode with no fill. Where you see the letters interlink, this is where no etch happens. See the photo for an example of this, the top Happy Birthday is the etch, I have marked with a felt pen where the issues are where the letters intersect eg look at where the H joins the a in Happy. The bottom Happy Birthday is an outline cut, you can see clearly where the letters intersect and this is where the etch doesn’t happen.
What’s happening is that you have individual overlapping shapes. The overlapping portions will become negative and thus not engrave. You can see that here:
I’ve highlighted in yellow the negative spaces. They correlate to the spots you’ve marked in black:
You can resolve this by selecting all the shapes and then Tools->Weld Shapes. This will create a single continuous closed shape from the multiple disparate shapes.
Similarly, if you create the content directly in LightBurn you can use the “Welded” toggle in in the Font toolbar to have this done for you automatically. This also works if you create the file in an external app and retain the objects as font shapes (rather than paths). If you export to SVG from CorelDraw font information should be retained.
Alternatively, you could convert the fonts to path in CorelDraw and weld/union the shapes before exporting for use in LightBurn. Just as long as you can avoid the overlapping shapes this will work as you expect.
After welding:
Hmm, this isn’t really an answer. The example I have used is a readily available font that anyone can download. There are lots of fonts that are designed like this so you now expect me to redesign EVERY font I have downloaded???
I reiterate my earlier comment, in CorelDraw to Universal, Epilog and Trotec laser machines this isn’t an issue. Why is it an issue with Lightburn? Why does Lightburn treat an overlapping colour, that are the same colours, differently to what is typically an industry standard approach? Imagine having complex drawings that you now have to precisely weld and join and close all curves instead of just overlapping individual segments???
Here is another issue, often to seperate black segements, I overlay a white coloured segment. White means no etch, all machines I have used don’t etch the white. But in Lightburn it ignores the white and etches the black that is hidden underneath…
I don’t think I said that. I said that you if you enable the “Welded” toggle in the Font toolbar that the text will be auto-welded. Note that this is only an issue with fonts that have characters meant to overlap.
It’s likely that part of the conversion process handles font welding automatically. Or is it possible those areas were being double burned? I’m not familiar with that workflow.
What is your workflow from Corel to LightBurn?
I’m not sure what you’re referring to as industry standard but reversing of overlapping areas of shapes is industry standard for how beziers are handled. The difference with LightBurn is that it does this for all shapes, not just shapes that are explicitly combined in a path.
This may be a different paradigm for you that you may need to adjust you but I assure you that many complex designs are burned from LightBurn. What you’re describing needn’t be an obstacle and there are likely easy and effective ways of handling most issues that you’re anticipating now. LightBurn is not much different than CorelDraw in terms of its use of beziers.
None of the layer colors in LightBurn have any artistic relefvance. A white layer does not negate a black or other color to null. Layer colors are simply ways of indicating layer assignments, with each layer representing a distinct laser operation. Association of objects to a common layer also indicate that they are meant to be treated in the same way. For example, overlapping portions of objects are negated when assigned to the same layer, but do not conform to that when on different layers as they are handled distinctly.
Keep in mind that LightBurn isn’t primarily an illustration program with a macro to convert, prep, and send a design to an intermediary laser job management program. LightBurn is a built from scratch, fit for purpose program meant to used for preparing and laying out designs for lasering and managing the communication with the laser to execute the burning of those designs.
This paradigm affords you controls that were either abstracted or done at a secondary stage from what you’re used to but you’ll likely adjust quickly once you’re familiar with the nuances.
@berainlb has given you a good explanation of this question. The pictures show how easy it is and this applies to all fonts - as long as they are not converted to shapes. After a conversion to shapes, boolean operations can be used to achieve the same effect, it’s just somewhat more time-consuming than the fully automatic welding function of fonts.
It’s not just fonts, it’s everything. Drawings, designs, client files etc all have overlapping areas that I now have to check and reprocess before I can put them through Lightburn.
This reminds me of the text editor debate in the 70’s until wysiwyg came along. The lasers and software I have been using for the last 15 years are all wysiwyg, Lightburn isn’t.
For example clients send me pdf files that I just import into Corel, check for alignment, colour standard (RGB preferred) and size and then fire the job off to the appropriate laser. That’s it, nothing else needed, what the client sent me is what will print. I don’t have to worry about intersecting lines, overlapping areas, underlying layers, white areas not processed etc etc. wisiwig.
I’m not saying the Lightburn process is wrong but there is a very very significant difference (in ease of use and complexity) from the non chinese laser environment I have been working in.
Think about this, maybe there is a reason why the 3 biggest manufacturers of Laser systems in the world are a wysiwyg process.
I’m curious. You didn’t state your workflow from Corel to LightBurn but I assume you’re exporting or possibly using the Corel->LightBurn macro.
If you were to reimport the intermediary file back into Corel and attempt to burn it on one of the Epilog or Universal machines what is the outcome? I’m thinking 3 possibilities:
Does this mean then that client is sending you laser ready files? With cut vs engraving operations? Or is this only for engraving? If this is the workflow you’re having is it possible everything is getting rasterized before being sent to laser? If that’s the case then you could do the same thing with LightBurn. Either bring in a raster image that’s already been processed or rasterize the design by selecting the design elements you want and then Edit->Convert to Bitmap.
I just watched a video for Corel to Epilog where the user addresses the exact same issue as here but for a slightly different purpose:
Laser cutting text quickly using CorelDraw X7 on an Epilog Helix - YouTube
From corel to Lightburn I’m using the macro.
I exported the graphic from Lightburn in SVG, imported it into Corel. It appears as usual and when I view it in outline mode the segments are still overlapping. I deselect outline mode, select fill mode and sent it to a Universal machine (I’m at home today and only have access to my Universal machine) and it etched as it appears on the screen and as I would expect it to etch.
The clients send me their files knowing that 1: black areas are etch 2: lines coloured red / blue / green / orange / magenta / yellow / cyan are cut. The clients prepare their drawings in whatever program they are using and then send me a pdf. I import it into Corel (as curves) and then after checking it, I send it to the laser. This is all I do, the pdf is laser ready from the time I import it into corel. The laser cuts the cut lines and etches the black areas.
If you want, make a pdf file with etch areas and cut lines, use whatever program you want, have overlapping segments in the etch areas, make sure the etch areas are filled with black and all lines / etch areas in RGB (to save me having to do any editing) and I’ll video the workflow from the import into Corel then sending it to a Universal machine so you can see how easy it is. Again, wysiwyg.
In the vid you reference, this is a cut so of course you have to separate the overlapping areas regardless of what application / laser machine you are using. My issue is with etching and how Lightburn to chinese laser handles overlapping etch areas (black) versus Corel to Universal etc laser.
I think there are 2 fundamental differences with what’s going on:
I can’t think through a scenario that would duplicate your exact workflow with LightBurn. The closest would be to rasterize all components in black before exporting sending to LightBurn. If you do that I suspect the remainder of the process would be roughly the same.
I think what’s happening is that there’s an automatic and implied rasterization that’s done with designs intended for etching as you say.
You’ve described it well enough where I get the workflow and I’ve seen other videos that fill in the gaps.
Does this mean that there’s no way to have filled vectors in that workflow?
I process thousands of client files a year, and switched to Lightburn in the beginning when it was clearly the most capable laser software on the market. However, I would recommend you need humble yourself a bit when learning something
A PDF cannot be uploaded directly into LB as you want it to. It is going to keep unmerged shapes as themselves because that is what all good software would do - keep the source file as a source.
Yes, as @berianlb so graciously said about your text, those must be welded together, either in LB or before importing.
For complex PDF, the best practice is to export as a png, import that into LB and use the trace. As a matter of fact, LB trace is so good, most of the time I just zoom in, screen shot the image and trace. LB trace is beyond superior against Illustrator, Draw and Inkscape. In my opinion, in terms of what I do, it is the most valuable and powerful design tool in the software.
At the end of the day, perhaps LB just isn’t for you. I know plenty of folks who this is the case, and RD works is just better suited for their needs. But, when I need help, there are a ton of really folks here who generously give me their time, and the creators are ALWAYS looking to make this software better through updates and additions - when they very well could just leave it alone. Respect is always in order here.
Matt
Also, when using illustrator - you can just copy and paste from there directly to LB. It will also carry the colors over from the two. If you can get the colors just right in your source program, LB will recognize these and convert them to the corresponding layers. For complex imports where you intend to use different layers, this is invaluable.
As a long time Epilog user who now uses a Chinese machine and Lightburn, let me clarify something. The big RF lasers (Epilog, Trotec, Universal) all have really smart controllers for the laser. The Chinese machines have very primitive controllers. For example, send a rectangle to cut with an Epilog and the controller knows it has to reduce power (and speed) at the corners to avoid over burn and AUTOMATICALLY adjusts it. The Chinese controller cannot do that. To compensate, the software (e.g., RD Works or Lightburn) must specify how much to lower power. Yes, the RF lasers are more wysiwyg. But, there are still funny differences. If you print a corel file with a hairline (“no thickness”) to a printer, you see a vey thin line. If you “print” that to your Epilog, it “knows” to make that a vector cut, not a scan/engrave. When I retired and wanted a personal laser to play with, I could go with a $35,000 (low end) Epilog or a $3,500 Chinese machine. When Lightburn came out I was overjoyed at dumping RD Works. Yes, the paradigm is different. The RF boys have written “printer drivers” but the Chinese are more frm the CNC world and need something more akin to CAM software. Also, Lightburn works with a LOT of different controllers, Epilog etc. have a far narrower focus.
As someone with thousands of Corel files that worked on Epilogs, I share your unhappiness that you cannot use all of them without change on Chinese lasers. There also are a lot of differences between RF and DC lasers I could mention. But for now, this old guy still loves to laser and loves Lightburn.
This is a great perspective and incredible comparison. Yes, for $3000 start up cost, our expectations should be reasonable.
I also want to add that Lightburn, by all accounts, could and probably should charge much more for their software. They are worlds apart from RD works and I appreciate that they also are reasonable.
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