I’m aboslutely new in the forum, I tried to find the answer for my question but didn’t manage. So I’m looking for a laser engraver which is capable of deep engraving injection moulding tools/inserts, made of tools steels (EN ISO 1.2343 or 1.2312). Engraving depth is usually max 0,5 mm (0,02 inch), precision and positioning is a key feature. Normally you can by laser engravers in Europe for 35-40 000 EUR (~ 37 000 $, a basic one) which is a bit high for my budget. I was wondering if possible to buy a Gweike / Cloudray or other chinese MOPA laser combined with Lightburn for 2,5 Engraving of such tools for 10 000 EUR/$. What I currently see, I get a 3D tool model in STP/STEP format, so first I will need a 3D modelling software to cut out the unnecessary parts and transform it to STL. Than I need Lightburn to create the layering and all the parameters. BUT how can I position the marking precisely as on the drawing/model? I can measure it on the 3DModel, but I need a camera an an alignment tool to ensure the correct postion somehow. Does someone have experience with such problem? Did some try to make such engraving or even surface texturing?
Thanks
Lightburn imports SVG files (among others): I saved from tinkercad to SVG to then open in Lightburn. It may be necessary to readjust the dimensions, laser settings and then I just need to center the design on the part. To center the design on the piece, there are several options depending on your needs. I suggest you do a search in the Lightburn documents or look for videos on YouTube on the subject, which should find clarification on this.
Regarding the type of machine to engrave a 0.5mm laser on metal, I don’t see any other way than a matter of power.
I don’t know if plasma wouldn’t be a more appropriate solution (it’s just an idea)
Fiber can easily deep engrave many metals, but I don’t know for sure if hardened tool steel is among them. I would guess yes, with appropriate power.
I would be more concerned with surface finish, but have also seen some pictures of wonderfully finished coins/medallions. Just don’t know how much hand finishing those required.
I do have a 50W fibre laser and I used it many times to engrave logos and cavity numbers on P20 steel moulding tools (I believe P20 is 1.2311). also used on copper for electrodes, and deep engravings on aluminium tools (7075, 2014T6 and 5083). Usually for logos and cavity numbers framing is a good way of positioning if there are some reference points around the engraving area.
in the image is an insert in 7075 aluminium 0.4 deep
Hello, Thanks for the reply, the parts you sent looks good. My only concern is that if I engrave a 10 000 EUR tool, made of hardened tool steel, I need to be sure that the car maker’s logo is aligned correctly, right angle, position acording to 3D model/ 2D drawing, depth is important, (I think even the surface roughness). I’m willing to meet other companies to see how the professionals make it, on the web I couldn’t find any good hint. I assume they using a masuring camera or similar to check the position of the projection before engraving. The picture I attached is a simple example, and it is not curcial for positioning, but VW would be pissed if they produce 100 000 cars with bad logo
Usually toolmakers order these, so I think the make the last steps. As I checked it is possible to create different finishing/surface teyture/ roughness with the laser. It’s a good question though how to check/measure if it’s according to specs.
I just asked cloudray, funny thing is, the 2.5D engraver with MOPA laser and rotary axis etc. doesn’t support lightburn (only EZCAD)… I don’t know what could be the problem, so I need check if there’s a solution or I need to make a different solution to this.
We specify most of our surface finishes in RA (roughness average) and measure with a profilometer, but that’s for mechanical mating/bearing surfaces. I’m not sure how cosmetic surfaces are specified and measured. I know some of the super fine finishes get into glossiness/reflectivity, but I have no experience with that.
We make heavy equipment, so cosmetic finishing is pretty limited and done in a different facility. We just cut, form, weld, and machine where I’m at.
Companies in the sector do that through electroerosion.
If you want any ideas on the subject, search this website, which belongs to a group of companies that supply a large part of the European car market.
While the main reason is (or at least was in the past) that no other manufacturing method can come even close to the flexibility and cost effectiveness of electroerosion, laser thechnology could well be a viable alternative in shallow engraving as the pricetag of the laser technology has plummeted.
One huge -IMO anyway- advantage would be the ability to choose other tool materials outside the obviously vital good electrical conductivity varities electroerosion requires.
I hope so. However @Rozsomak asked how this is currently being done, and currently it is still the “actual” procedure. Probably to ensure that the reliefs, textures and details required by the constructors can be obtained.
If your tolerances don’t allow for positioning error, I think you’ll have a hard time getting true accuracy with LightBurn. Functionally you can totally do this sort of etching, but aligning the parts will be difficult. You may need an XY stage under your galvo head that provides enough resolution for you to ‘bump’ the etch into alignment, likely with offline metrology checks to verify on a sample part before etching the final tool.
I’ve had very good luck etching into hard materials with my 60W MOPA. This is the HSS shank of a lathe tool. Not carbide of course, but still, its doable.
As do I.
That would open up a world of possibilities.
OTOH, in order to match the surface textures of two separately injection moulded plastic parts that are later joined, most likely the dies for both will have to be done using the same method.
So that narrows the possibilities quite a bit in the industrial scale.
Actually, I don’t think he asked that.
The way I read it, he asked mainly about positioning accuracy of the available medium budget laser systems, and secondly, about the actual lasers that are up to the job.
I for one (BEng Mech.) can’t believe for a second that someone who’s tasked (or just wants to take an expensive shot at it) to shallow-engrave injection moulding dies, doesn’t for some odd reason have a solid knowledge about how it has been done for decades in the big league.
Moreso if ones client is in the automotive industry.
The positioning accuracy will probably be the proverbial straw that breaks the just as proverbial camels back in this application, since it’s pretty safe to say that direct closed loop X-Y-Z positioning systems do not exist in that price range.
So:
may be the most practical and also the most economical workaround solution.
It’s quite possible. My English is far from what I wanted and Google Translate translates into Brazilian Portuguese, instead of Portuguese from Portugal, which makes my understanding even more difficult.
By the way, if @Rozsomak could clarify the doubt,…
(Sometimes, just the willingness to help is not enough)
I asked some companies about xy tables but they said you will need a cross table with 0.02mm accuracy. Such laser budget price 100 000 eur. So it is the solution, but it is expensive too.
Thanks for the comment. I checked it is done partially by electroerosion but in lot of cases laser is the only way. I contacted a company in Hungary who imports such machines. We will see. I think i need to start somewhere, before i buy a highly overpriced contour engraver.
I was thinking. What if i change the theta lens to telecentric lens. The machine’s working area will be reduced ,but it could create an engraving without deformation at the side of the working area and maybe the layers would also more precise. Just thinking it is maybe a stupid idea.
That’s probably about right, and shouldn’t be a problem uness the area needed or the weight of the die requires a larger bed.
The way @Colin and I intended the XY(Z) table to be used, was to offer fine tuning capability on the bed of an existing laser system, not a whole system with 0.02mm accuracy.
That workaround solution won’t be particularily cheap either, but way less than an industrial scale laser with that level of accuracy.
That kind of a workaround solution can also present some repeatability issues, and is guaranteed not to be as flexible as a complete laser system where everything is fine tuned to work together.
The good thin is that You most likely will be able to try it out with hobby budget equipment, and later graduate to industrial scale equipment if it works as intended.
In any case, a working system will be somewhat expensive.
If that task could be pulled off with low budget equipment, everyone with the capability to 3D etch metals would offer that kind of a service.
And some probably are as we speak, especially when the accuracy demands are lower.
