Looking for recommendations for a new laser frame

Community Laser Talk
1

Hi, I’m looking for recommendations for a new laser.

I currently have 2 lasers (Sculpfun S30 Pro - 10w and Sculpfun S9 - 5w) but I’m on the hunt for a new frame (or the whole laser). I wouldn’t want anything too strong because precision and details in engraving are more important to me. With a too strong laser, I would only get a thicker beam and something on the cutting speed, but I would lose details in the engraving due to the thickness of the beam and the weight of the laser head. It also doesn’t matter to me that it’s closed because I have my own box, but I have a few other things that are important to me:

  • shipped from EU warehouse
  • responsive user support
  • accelerations on both axes so that the laser can really reach the configured speed and still be precise
  • G-Code clustering - I don’t have experience with it since Sculpfun doesn’t support it, but from what I’ve read it could help when engraving photos, because currently when I’m engraving them the laser jerks a lot and I guess it’s because the controller can’t process so many commands fast enough (engraving is OK but slower than I would like)
  • limit switches
  • automatic air assist or M7 / M8 port to be able to connect my external air assist with the relay
  • working space about 400x400mm (minimum 380x380mm)
  • if the entire laser is with a head, it is important to me that the protection on the laser can be removed so that it does not get stuck on small pieces that occasionally pop out during cutting and that the protective lens can be changed in case it is no longer possible to clean it, as well as the smallest possible thickness laser beams
  • at the moment, I mainly cut plywood up to 4mm thick, and the 10w laser seems sufficient to me because the thickness of the beam is small and the cuts are caramelized and not burnt (I mainly use beech, birch, poplar, basswood, walnut and okoume)

At the moment, Acmer P2 and Algolaser (Alpha/Delta) have caught my eye.

  • Acmer P2 because it has linear guides on both axes, therefore in theory it should be stable at higher speeds and accelerations (P2 of 33W has $120=1600 and $121=900. On Sculpfun I use $120=1000 and $121=500 because that configuration seemed like the best balanced for what I need) but on it the protection on the laser head is not removable, G-Code clustering does not seem to be supported.
  • Algolaser (Alpha/Delta) because it supports G-Code clustering, but I haven’t found information anywhere about which accelerations it uses and I’m not sure how much the change in the size of the laser beam depending on the power is reflected in the grayscale engraving and there are some negative comments about QC in the official Facebook support group.

Thank you!

2

Some of the requirements you set for your machine, make it so only AlgoLaser is really ticking all boxes

Gcode CLustering, which for engraving is a big plus on speed.
Automatic air assist and programatic air assist

Delta or Alpha or even Kit machine would offer you all of the above
Alpha is a great compromise, Delta brings some advanced features at a bigger gost of course

But i think the ALpha 22W should tick ALL boxes. Added advantage you could get a 5W module very inexpensivly for just plug and play if you really wanted to go extra small dot.

In fairness though, the dot size of the 22W and even 40W would only be massive if you went 100% power. Which you wouldnt for engraving
The biggest downside of these modules is the extra cooling weight that you would have to carry around. reducing therefore the ability to move fast.
40W ALgolaser module is a 1.2kg chunkas!

Alternativly, if you are happy with your frames, you could get a inexpensive Kit machine from Algolaser with 5W or 10W module, swap the electronics over to your frame, and keep the best of both worlds

EDIT and Disclosure: I am Product manager and Customer support of AlgoLaser.
*So my opinion is obviously biased, but still factual! :slight_smile: *
Any questions of technical side just ask

2 Likes
3

Thanks Gil for your inputs!

I’m somewhat happy with the S30 frame, which is stiffer than the S9 frame, but it’s not stiff enough for higher speeds and accelerations without losing precision and too much vibration. The AlgoLaser DIY kit has an even weaker frame (its 2020 extrusion profiles are similar to the S9 frame, the S30 has stronger 2020 extrusion profiles and a linear guide for the X axis). For this reason, from AlgoLaser, I lean more towards Alpha/Delta, or even NEJE Max 4 which has 4020 extrusion profiles.

Engravings with the S30 Pro 10W head (and especially with the S9 5W head) are great for me. I also have spare lenses for both, although I haven’t changed a single one yet because I regularly clean everything and have 3 pumps connected together. One small aquarium 50l/h that runs all the time to protect the lens from dirt and two Sculpfun 30l/min that turn on together for cutting with a relay (Frankenstein combination from what I have at home because my workshop compressor is too noisy and with two Sculpfun 30l/ min pumps cut better for me than with one :grinning:).

It seems ideal to me if I could mount the Sculpfun head on the AlgoLaser Alpha/Delta because I wouldn’t have to additionally buy a new weaker head for more detailed engraving since both of these are in perfect condition (it’s clear to me that I would need a separate power supply for the head or a step down voltage regulator), although maybe the AlgoLaser 22W head would be ok with engraving - I have no live experience with it.

Another option would be maybe an AlgoLaser DIY kit on the Sculpfun frame as you mentioned, it would certainly be the cheapest and it would get G-Code Clustering, but it still wouldn’t be able to achieve better accelerations and higher speeds in vector engraving.

(For the mentioned Acmer P2, a colleague has 33W and compared to 10W from Sculpfun the laser beam is huge, it is impossible to achieve details like with Sculpfun 10W and especially 5W but I like the frame on it because of the linear guides on both axes. I don’t engrave slate or tiles so I don’t have that much fine dust that would affect the work of linear guides that you mentioned in one of the YT live streams when you said why you didn’t choose linear guides with AlgoLaser)

4

i am assuming your laserhaed is 12v? but eithe way all you would need is the ALC board, a little converted. Nothing major

I would say, if you opt the algolaser route you would be happy with the stock configuration .

Something you might be missing though is the compromise between higher pwoer vs speed
Is not a linear scale because of mass of the module
You will be able to go faster, but you get to a point where the mass becomes a brick wall and you wont be able to move any faster.
So >20W honestly is for cutting … i would almost dare to say >10W for mass alone
In other words, the extra power you have, you are unable to dump on the material fast enough.

Your biggest advantage on the Algolaser frame will be Gcode Clustering
Pump control is neat but for engraving of little use.

IF it was me. i would go Alpha 10W. then go from there upgrades if necessary

Again disclaimer. Biased! LOL

5

Yes, my laser heads are 12V.

Looking on the official site, currently:
Alpha 10W - 420€
Alpha 22W - 731€
Delta 22W - 914€

But… on TomTop in DE warehouse Delta 22W is 659€, Alpha 22W is 539€ so I’m wondering if I should bite that and buy Delta from TomTop and try to attach my 10W if needed.

I have already bought some accessories for lasers from them before and everything went without a problem.

6

i would say, if delta is in yoru budget GO for it

if not, unless you plan to do a lot of offline angraving or do a lot of repetitive work that would benefit from saving Gcode in memory and use the LCD, i would go ALpha 10W
Save the remainer budget to buy accessories along the way AS you need them

There is a difference between nice to have and NEED to have :slight_smile:

7

I don’t plan to do any offline engraving currently. Repetitive work I’m doing, but it can be online.

Delta has (according to specs) slightly larger work area, but I currently work mainly with 300x300 and 350x350 boards and engravings on approx 400mm round wooden serving boards so ATM .

Alpha 10W is coming without air assist pump, and AlgoLaser has some proprietary connector for AirAssist pump so I should buy “Smart Air Assist pump” which is about 100€ or mess with connector and possibly void warranty.

In the facebook group, it seems to me that Alpha has more complaints about QC than Delta (however, this may not be a true reflection, it is possible that Delta is sold less and/or that it is bought by different user profiles)

I have to think more and weigh the investment/gain, considering that I have 2 working lasers and mostly what I’m looking for is just speed.

Certainly thank you for the advice and for not going immediately in the direction of Delta, but for trying to be objective regarding my wishes and expectations.

8

Correct, delta being the flagship we planned to give it extra room so when 40W is added or in future bigger modules the space they take off the frame will STILL allow 400x400 total engraving.

Connector has 24v, but the smart connect allows digital control. Without knowing the protocol - which is not open source - all you get is 24v you can use for a pump. I would suggest the advantage of algolaser is its digital smart connect layer. which will be useful for ANY future addons

Teething pains for sure on 1st batch but facebook will always lay heavy on issues as people join primarelly to ask for help.

I tend to think this way. If your budget is say 2000.
You can buy 1 machine for 2000 with features you might or might not use

or you can split it and buy 2x 1000 machines, Double work output, lower risk of downtime (if one machine fails for some reason other keeps going)

Again though depends a lot on your spedific use case. But i will never tell you to go buy the Top Notch all bells and whistles unless you have a “because i CAN” budget! :smiley:

9

I finally pulled the trigger and bought an AlgoLaser Delta 22W for an OK price at a sale.

I have to admit that I expected a bit more from it.

The frame seems solid, but in reality it is not solid enough to maintain accuracy with that weight of a laser head with factory overoptimistic accelerations and high speeds (acceleration for X is 2000mm/sec^2 and 1800mm/sec^2 for Y). When engraving lines with a lot of changes in direction, such as small letters, everything turns out quite badly and imprecisely. It also happens that, for example, if I engrave something with fill and around it I have an offset that I am cutting, that offset in most cases moves to the side.

I partially solved it by rechecking the belts and wheels, tightened the wheels just enough so that they don’t spin freely and the X/Y axis doesn’t wobble, and tightened the belts a bit more, so that it has a clear sound when pulled with a finger (like string on the guitar) so that it does not skip at higher acceleration/speed.
Also, when doing precision engraving, I reduce the acceleration to 500 or even 300 because with the standard 2000 mm/sec^2 for X and 1800 mm/sec^2 for Y, it is impossible no matter how low the engraving speed is.

So, to precisely engrave the lines, I first reduce the acceleration, for example - 500 mm/sec^2 :
$120=500
$121=500
and use lower speeds (for example 3000 mm/min or less).

When engraving images (and generally where fill is used) where most rapid movements are left<->right along the X axis, higher acceleration and higher speed can be used.

Another problem for which I have not yet found a solution is air assist. When it turns on with the layer and then turns off, it remains on at 30% and that doesn’t suit me because 30% is too much for some materials and then it gets smoky around the engraving, so I always have to do the cutting at the end after all the engravings (additional I connected a small aquarium pump in parallel with this one from AlgoLaser which runs constantly to keep the lens clean without destroying the engraving at the same time). Also, when the laser completely stops working, the pump still stays at 30% (workaround solution for this part is by adding M17 to the End GCode in Device Settings).

10

I had another problem, the machine was making strange noises so I took it apart and found that the Y axis motor was loose so I checked all the screws, lubricated where possible, and put it back together, it’s better now.

I think I also managed to solve the air assist pump “problem” with the Custom GCode controller and Custom GCode commands:
User End Script: M17
Air On: M16S1000
Air Off: M16S10
Cut Move: G1 [X]{x}[Y]{y}[Z]{z}[A]{rot}S{power}[F]{speed}

Another working combination (possibly better because S can be omitted if not changed from previous G1 move so command is shorter)

User End Script: M17
Air On:

M16S1000
S0

Air Off:

M16S10
S0

Cut Move: DEFAULT

Also I have enabled Tool State Automatic and Variable Laser Power

So with enabled air assist on layer it sets pump to 100% and with disabled air assist pump is at 1%, and at end it turns pump completely off. Cut Move change was needed because without it sometimes laser is turned on at 100% instead of configured power at layer (it uses S from Air On which is sent previously instead of configured layer power in some cases - probably when power is same as previous (sub)layer).

One thing I’m missing with Custom GCode controller is GCode Clustering and I think that it is always using dynamic power mode (M4), if I enable Constant Power Mode at layer, produced GCode is still with M4 instead of M3. Maybe @LightBurn could help with some info regarding this.

Possible LightBurn improvement is, according to latest test if if we could at GRBL controller in Basic Settings configure for Air Assist custom command, e.g. there could be M7, M8 and Custom, and if Custom is selected, for AlgoLaser there could be for Air On text input with value:

M16S1000
S0

and for Air Off text input with value:

M16S10
S0

And then on GCode tab in End GCode there could be value M17 and I think that with that GCode Clustering and Constant Power Mode will be working.

GRBL info 
[ORIGIN:China]
[PRODUCER:Algolaser.com]
[AUTHOR:Algolaser.com]
[MODEL:AlgoLaser Delta]
[ALF:130]
[ALH:AlgoLaser DM V3.2]
[ALM:GENERAL]
[DATE:20240626]
[IP:192.168.1.126]
[SN:C33CB4448FBCE561AD6DFEFEA83AB726]
[VER:1.1f.20220325:]
[OPT:VNPZHS+,63,65535,3,0]
Target buffer size found
[NEWOPT:ENUMS,RT+,HOME,NOPROBE,TC,SED,CLU,WIFI,FTP,SD,LCD,TMC=3,MODBUS,HPL,GT,YRR]
[FIRMWARE:grblHAL]
[NVS STORAGE:*FLASH]
[DRIVER:ESP32-S3]
[DRIVER VERSION:220327]
[DRIVER OPTIONS:GIT-NOTFOUND]
[TYPE:ALD1]
[CLUSTER:16]
Cluster size found
[PLUGIN:Power Detecter v1.00]
[PLUGIN:Power Control v1.00]
[PLUGIN:Gyroscope Sensor v1.00]
[PLUGIN:Trinamic v0.90]
[PLUGIN:MODBUS v0.12]
[PLUGIN:HPGL v0.05]
[PLUGIN:GADGET v1.60]
[PLUGIN:YRR v1.00]
ok
Homing
ok

AlgoLaser_Delta_LightBurn_Profile_Custom_GCode.lbdev (4.8 KB)