Need some advices before buying this second hand bodor co2 laser

Badrimus · April 21, 2024, 10:58am

I found this second hand láser at a bargain price and not far from where a live, I can go and check it myself. I’m not an expert in big machines like this one and I never used ruida machines before, the only 2 machines I ever owned are a DIY grbl 90w and k40.

I went to see the machine 2 days ago but I couldn’t test it because the owner was busy and we arranged another day for testing, he told me that he never used the laser and that he got it from a factory that barely used it and that it was part of a payment the factory had to pay him. He gave me the green light to test anything I want for a full day from 8:30am to 6pm before buying it.

First thing I noticed when I briefly saw it:

Well preserved for a 2017 second hand cutting machine (7 years).
The machine factory date is 01-2017
The laser tube factory date is 08-2020
Laser tube power: 130w
Laser tube max power: 170w
bed working area: 160 cm X 100 cm
The bed is not leveled from the left side (looking at the machine), the lifting mechanism is split to two stepper motors one controls the left side and the other the right side of the bed, each has it’s own belt. (I attached pictures showing the tilt in the the bed and lifting mechanism)

Screenshot_20240421-120439~2 (1)1080×793 61.8 KB

The gantry is different than the pictures and videos I’ve seen on the internet about the same model. (I attached picture the first pic is the machine gantry, the second pic is from the pictures I found on the web)

IMG-20240420-WA00041600×1200 161 KB

Some pictures of the machine and it’s electronics:

The point of creating this topic is to gather as many advices as possible from the community about things I need to test and try before buying it.

Any piece of advice will be much appreciated and helpful.

Cheers

ednisley · April 21, 2024, 11:44am

The photo of the controller shows all four LEDs for the X and Y limit switches are active: both the + and - limits are triggered. This is unusual and suggests something is either oddly configured or broken in the wiring / switch configuration. It is possible they have disabled auto-homing and just jog the head around for their jobs, so it’s not a dealbreaker.

The Ethernet cable is plugged in (to a WiFi adapter?) and LED 12 shows the link is active, so it’s (probably) connected to the shop network. You should be able to bring a laptop with LightBurn installed, connect it to the shop network, and take the machine for a test drive.

Expect to replace the tube, even if the machine hasn’t been used for a few years, because the gases deteriorate. The tube should work well enough to test the machine and you can probably use it for a while, but it may be near its end of life.

I see three stepper motor drivers, so the two Z axis motors probably run in parallel from the big (lower) driver. One may have become disconnected while the other one continued running until the platform jammed.

With the power off, you can probably drag the Z axis belts enough to turn the leadscrews and align the two sides. It may automatically home the Z axis when you turn it on, in which case be prepared to hit the Big Red Switch if only one side of the platform moves. If Z doesn’t auto-home, try jogging the platform with the console buttons to verify both motors run.

If one motor is inert / dead, you can fix it after some troubleshooting (it’s probably a bad connection), but factor that into the price.

Bottom line: if you have the room, it looks like a good deal!

Badrimus · April 21, 2024, 2:00pm

Very useful advices, thank you.
I will start a “to test list” like that I can be more focused while testing.

Regarding the X and Y led lights, how they are supposed to be when the machine is on but not working? Which lights must be on and which ones off?

The owner is not willing to sell the machine for less than 4000€ + transport which will cost around 250€ total 4250€, for a bit less than this price I’ve seen a machine made by a brand called VEVOR 4050€ shipment included in the price, 3 days delivery: 130w laser tube, 140cm X 90 cm bed area, Integrated chiller and air assist, 800mm/s engraving speed, 500mm/s cutting speed, ruida controller (I think it the newer version with more buttons on the board and not the one seen on the machine main webpage, I know it because someone asked them in their QA section and they replaced that it comes with newer version)… here is the link: VEVOR VEVOR Máquina de Grabado Láser 130W Área de 900x1400 mm Máquina Grabadora de CO2 | VEVOR ES
The downside about this machine is that I haven’t found any videos or fotos about this new VEVOR machine, the videos I found are about the older version.

Have you ever heard of this machine? If yes, what’s the best option between the 2, second hand bodor or new VEVOR?

Cheers, appreciate the help

micrololin · April 21, 2024, 3:25pm

Is that not a 4th with the power supplies?

ednisley · April 21, 2024, 5:23pm

Good catch!

That makes the misalignment more puzzling, but a loose wire going to one of the drivers would suffice.

The usual setup is having the LEDs turn on when the corresponding limit switch is triggered, so the normal situation has both LEDs for each channel turned off, because the switches are not triggered.

However, that’s with the standard switch polarity. I do not know how the controller treats inverted polarity switches, which are active when they are not triggered. It may be the LEDs indicate the state of the switch input, rather than its logical meaning, so it’s possible lighted LEDs = switch inactive and everything is just fine.

Opinion

Those two statements don’t seem like they can both be true at the same time.

It seems overpriced, even if it includes all the ancillary hardware (air pump, chiller, etc).

Although laser hardware (other than the tube) doesn’t deteriorate over time, a seven year old machine is not worth nearly the sticker price of a similar new machine.

You are giving up any support & warranty coverage (no matter how ineffectual it may be), getting a machine with unknown history that almost certainly will need a new tube, and having to figure any problems after the fact.

gilaraujo · April 21, 2024, 5:43pm

Subcribe to all @ednisley said
On top of that I would say VEVOR is a conglomerate reseller, god knows what suppliers they have. Or how warranty will ever be.

Badrimus · April 21, 2024, 5:50pm

When I looked at the second hand price of the bodor BCL 1610 X the pricing was between 6000 and 8000€ euros, and when I searched the original price 7 years ago for the same model (new) it was 15000€ for the 120 cm X 70cm 100w so I thought it’s a bargain based on the original price and maybe the hardware was of premium quality compared to brand like VEVOR. So In your opinion it’s more beneficial for my business growth a new VEVOR machine than a second hand bodor BCL 1610?
Do you know which stepper motors vevor uses in their machines?
Is there a way to check the hours used by the machine on ruida controller board?
What’s a bargain price would be for a machine like bodor BCL 1610 X based on your experience?

gilaraujo · April 21, 2024, 5:56pm

The market became way more competitive and lasers more of a commodity in recent years, i think you cannot use 7 year ago prices as any guide of true 2nd hand value.

Badrimus · April 21, 2024, 5:59pm

Correct me if I’m wrong, what I understood from @ednisley opinion is that a new vevor is a better option between the 2 machines, and in your opinion I should look to other options, right? If so any suggestions? I’ve heard that vevor is the same as omtech

gilaraujo · April 21, 2024, 6:13pm

We might both need correcting but i think Ed was refering more “new” not necessarely New vevor.

I would define a set of needs and a budget. Plenty of current modern machines at that price range that could fit your needs better. However - as all things - is a compromise. The size and addons that machine comes with look appealing and i assume you have the real estate to set it up + exhaust + Chiller space etc.

I guess you must ask yourself what you need the machine to make, and then with the 5000EUR budget what can you buy? Is this new option BETTER or not vs that used machine vs your needs.

Wish there was a black and white answer but all is a big gray in these things.

ednisley · April 21, 2024, 6:39pm

The price of laser machines has collapsed over the last few decades. I paid a bit over $3k for my machine, delivered to my basement door, which was much less than the price that deterred me from buying a big laser a decade ago.

IMO the quality / support have also collapsed, but (for obvious reasons) I do not have direct experience with the Good Old Days of laser equipment.

For used equipment, I’d expect to pay no more than half of whatever similar equipment costs today, not half of its original purchase price.

That may be true, but that hardware is also a decade out of date.

In round numbers, current lasers contain commodity hardware you can replace directly from Amazon / eBay / AliExpress. Assuming you can find a reputable seller, any and all of it will work fine.

As @gilaraujo said, VEVOR sells many many things, from chafing dishes (!) to laser cutters, so I do not regard them as a particularly knowledgeable source.

Although my laser came from OMTech, they separated their laser division from all their other tools (it was “Orion Motor Technology”) and seem to have some competence in the field.

No matter which laser you buy, expect that you must become the service technician for it: you will do all the debugging and replacement part procurement. A new machine will have some warranty support, but you’ll still be the tech making the decisions.

An old machine will require you to start cold, because it may not work, might not be configured correctly, and may fail due to a component aging out. If that’s already factored into your decision, great, but don’t pay top dollar (euro, whatever) for a “nice” old machine in the expectation you can just plug it in, fire it up, and have it become immediately productive.

Badrimus · April 21, 2024, 7:17pm

Very nice approach to second hand items, I like it .

You are referring to the vevor or the second hand laser?

jkwilborn · April 21, 2024, 10:55pm

I might as well chime it here. I have a China Blue that’s a 5030 bed, costs about $2k a few years back and I’ve added a bunch of stuff to it.

It sounds to me the current second hand price for this device has them going for a value of between 6k and 8k euros. This 4k value does sound enticing. Even the cheap prices of 6K is is 1/3 more than his asking price.

The compared machine, was 100W, this machine is 200W.

It seems when tubes get up in the 100W plus range, they seem to be more dependable, as most of these are rated at 10K hours. It was manufactured less than three years ago. It’s easily replaced, as is most of the other components.

I have numerous people advise me they’ve got 7 years on their K40, which is a very low cost hobby laser, but they run them like a diode, which has to take it’s toll.

I think if you check out the people here, many of us have old tubes. I don’t think it’s new for a 2020 manufacture date, but it’s not really old either, for a commercial tube. These are out of the hobby realm.

If you look at the inside of this used machine, it’s built much better than any of the newer Chinese models… Just looking at it’s mechanical, it’s construction appears to be much more substantial than mine. All the wiring cabinets look clean and professionally done, unlike my OMTech machine where they drooled hot glue over all the terminals to ensure they stayed there…

The main hardware is there… at least the main parts, such as a dsp controller and motor drivers, power supplies.

This thing looks like it’s built like a tank compared to mine.

You can get the controller information Edit → Get controller info - the stored statistics of it’s operation. Don’t know if you can get it from the console … I doubt it. This is a screen shot of mine when I’d had it a couple of months.

The problem with this is there appears no way to reset these values. I’ve never done a factory reset to see if that fixed this or not… sorry not much help here…

As you pointed out, the tube in this has clearly been replaced as it’s manufacture date is 2020.

I’d consider this used item a better machine overall than most of these other machines like I have.

Of course, I can fix it if it needs to be done, I think … that is a very practical part of purchasing used equipment. Sounds like you have enough diy with these that it’s probable you can fix issues if they come along…

It will end up in your lap and you have to take responsibility for any machine you purchase. None of the Chinese companies really seem to be exceptional as far as technical service.

Just my opinion.

Good luck

Badrimus · April 22, 2024, 1:10am

Thanks for your advice,
I called the owner and we arranged tomorrow for testing, one thing for sure, the machine is like a tank, my wife went with me the first time and the first thing she said when she saw it “no way, what’s that!?” she thought it won’t even fit the garage door, when standing next to it that thing is well built.

Will see how it performs tomorrow on the things that matters, I prepared some materials for testing.

If you guys think of anything I need to check tomorrow that is not mentioned above please let me know about it.

Cheers

Colin · April 22, 2024, 2:45am

If you do end up buying it, and the journey isn’t too far, I highly recommend getting a drop deck towtruck to come and pick it up. They work great for moving, and can drop it down to the ground to roll off into your workspace.

Evans · April 27, 2024, 7:35pm

As long as its cheap and you’re able to sort it out yourself go for it

Badrimus · April 28, 2024, 8:25am

Update: the owner was busy but he finally had time yesterday. I was ready for a whole day of testing, brought all kind of materials I want to work with and in the end it only took me 15min to make the decision of not buying it.
1- The laser beam is weak, I wasn’t able to cut even 2mm MDF at 90% 1mm/s .
2- The whole structure was bent I believe it happened because they elevated the machine from the middle when they transported it, they should’ve used pallets underneath.
3- the bed left stepper motor loses steps every time the machine is turned off.

To cut the story short it’s not worth it at all.

I decided to go for a new machine. What do you guy think of this machine?

I couldn’t find any user manual nor a video about it and I’m not sure if what advertised on the page is accurate or just a smoke. I never bought anything from eBay before, I live in Spain and this machine is shipped from Germany, I don’t know if it’s safe and guaranteed buying from eBay and how they handle and fix issues when things go wrong (dispute, refund, warranty…)
Hopefully someone here have the same or similar machine and can share his thoughts about it

Cheers

bernd.dk · April 28, 2024, 9:15am

I am a little apprehensive about this offer, a response machine from OMT on Amazon.de costs 5357 euros, also about 22100 euros more! (Without CW3000, which I do not consider the right refrigerator for this laser)

OMT is not the Rolls Royce in the laser category but still an ok and payable machine.

There is probably something about the talk, “If an offer sounds too good, then there’s something wrong”.

I don’t have anything I can justify my statement with, it’s only my feeling with this anonce that makes it like I don’t want to buy this machine from this supplier.

I also consider Amazon in connection with PayPal as a safer way to shop online.

gilaraujo · April 28, 2024, 9:23am

I would also just reach to the main manufactureres locally and see
Assuming @Badrimus is american Aeon, Thunder, OMtech and alikes
Never know if the price difference might be - in the end - not worth the risk.

Also window shopping and show room visits are part of the fun of buying a new toy