Paranoid about these goggles

I can cut Lexan but it is definitely more difficult, part of it burns, the edges are rough, looks more like a bad oxy/acetylene cut in metal. Acrylic always cuts clean and smooth for me with polished looking edges.

The main point in all this, is be careful with the laser and have the proper and quality eye protection. So the OP here is doing the right thing. I have seen too many on other forums that buy the widely available low cost diode lasers with no thought to safety. I have visions of someone losing an eye because their friend was showing what their nifty new laser can do.

Hi.

^This.

Tldr: If the reputable commercial laser safety glasses are out of reach for some reason, do use an enclosure.
The process can be monitored with a camera if needed.

For us more budget oriented folks, IMHO the only option for safe laser work with these low cost visible->low IR diode lasers is to put it into an enclosure of some sort.
Given the low budget requirements, itā€™d be safe to assume that laser blocking transparent construction materals are out of the question :D.

My solution was to fabricate an ATA case/enclosure out of ā€œfarmā€ plywood and AH extrusions+HW for my xTool D1 Pro.
Mainly because the xTool supplied glasses are advertised for 455nm only, so no dice with 1064nm, and also because I donā€™t necessarily believe the claims that they make on the supplied glasses either.

The added benefit of such an enclosure is the ease of transportation.
That ease will be obviously somewhat diminished when I fabricate one that can be used with the extensions.

Thatā€™s about the only way to determine whether the glasses/goggles absorb the required wavelengths.
Easiest way to determine how much the lens absorbs, is obviously to compare a appropriate power level material test with and without the lens.

Other method would be to use any of the laser power meters on the market, but as Iā€™ve not tested mine yet, hard to say if those work as intended, or at all for that matter.

Third could be to use optometrist or optician with the appropriate measuring devices, but I have no idea what that would cost or if theyā€™re willing at all to perform such a test for something that one didnā€™t buy from them.

Because of the geometrics and optics involved with at least all the lasers I know of, the glasses/goggles donā€™t need to be ruined in the test though.
Thatā€™s a good thing because one never knows whether all the glasses/goggles from a certain budget store on the internet are actually the same as the ones bought/tested before.
One can test the actual pair theyā€™re using.

The following is in NO WAY intended as an excuse not to use goggles, nor to somehow give an illusion that itā€™s all the same what to use, but just a quick brush up to the upper secondary school physics, and a reminder of what our diode lasers actually require eye protectionwise.

Unless one does something extremely ignorant -like use the laser head in a handheld fashion- the beam strength/area at 50-100cm distance from the focus point is something entirely different than what it is at the focus point.
Fortunately/unfortunately, whatever way one wants to think about it, we do not have the movie/comic book laser beams at our disposal.
We have an energy beam that resembles an X, with the focus point at the waist.

As an example, my xTool D1 Pro 20W 455nm has a ~0.1 beam diameter at the focus point, but 70mm further away that diameter is ~5mm.
So the area increases from ~0.008mm2 to ~19.6mm2, so ~2450 times the area and obviously the energy intensity is 1/2450 J/mm2.
At full 20 (advertised) watts that power does still very much scorch and gouge wood and such materials, so care have to be taken.

The reflected beam is another matter.
As soon as the ever expansing beam hits any surface, the reflection equations start to play a major role, obviously.
Depending on the material, some of the power is absorbed, some of it reflects fully, and some scatters.

While the reflected and scattered energy loses its strength rather quickly, it is still very much harmful to our eyes.
Mainly because our eyes are optical in nature as well, so the energy is again focused to a small area, thus increasing the power/area figure.

So once again, if the commercial goggles/glasses/masks are out of reach, do use an enclosure.
We have only one pair of eyes, and with a laser injury, the risk of losing or injuring both at the same time is IMHO way too great to ignore.

Regards,
Sam

Your laser eye protection is no different to a welderā€™s mask in that you will know if its working as your eyes wonā€™t be sore after prolonged work. If youā€™re getting sore eyes with these glasses it means your eyes are being burnt.
Oh and red lens is for protection from a blue diode laserā€¦

Thanks, it is a blue 10w diode laser.

1- adjust the power to something ā€œsafeā€ that does not burn a white sheet of paper.

  • the wavelenght is the same regardless of power.
    2- place the glasses between the laser and paper
    3- looking at the paper: you should see that very little or none focused light gets to the paper.
  • this way you know that the glasses absorbed the light. (or reflected it - so try varying the angle.)

Hi.

While generally speaking light is light (la, laa-la-la-la :wink:), the coherent and more or less monochromatic nature of a laser -any laser- makes comparing the two a lot more complicated.
Not to mention that the automatic variety of welding masks will always stress -and on the worst case scenario even damage- eyes, even when working as specā€™d.

The radiation spectrum from a welding arc is very wide, ranging from deep UV, all trough the visible range to well into IR with varying intensities across the frequency/wavelength range.
Even though the power across the spectrum is relatively high, the variation when divided into specfic frequency/wavelength regions, can be surprisingly high.
And furthermore, the ones that stress the eyes enough to hurt, arenā€™t necessarily the most powerful nor the most harmful to our eyesight or skin for that matter.
And usually nowhere near the peak intensity of even the weakest of the hobby lasers we use, regardless of how much the beam has lost its coherence.

Unlike the temporary eye damage or irritation from a welding arc or reflected sunlight that can hurt a lot with even the tiniest of exposure, when laser damage can be felt, itā€™s pretty safe to assume that some permanent damage has already happened.
And if the wavelength or the area the beam hits is such that it doesnā€™t affect anything with nerves, one may feel absolutely nothing.

Only true with quality lens material from a reputable manufacturer or supplier, on industrial scale it is super easy and super cheap to cover lenses -or even to tint the material itself- with any colour.
For example, the glasses xTool supplies with 20W 455nm (blue) laser, are green.
I havenā€™t tested them yet.

Iā€™d also assume that most of the manufacturers colour code their lenses and other semitransparent laser protective materials, so a specific colour or tint is easily identified to block a certain wavelength.
Probably not very important for a hobbyist with one laser, but for example in medical field there may be a wide variety of lasers in use in the same facility, so it is utterly important to use the correct glasses/goggles with a specific laser.
It can be important for a hobbyist also, because the nature of the laser is that thereā€™s no ā€œSwiss army knifeā€ thatā€™d do everything, one needs different wavelengths/frecuencies to be able to mark and/or cut different materials.
So the urge to own and operate several different kinds of lasers can bee rather hard to resist :wink: .

Regards,
Sam

Hi.

Exactly.

Thatā€™s what I meant by ā€œnot necessarily having to damage the glassesā€.
Easy to try, and by varying the power level, the amount of absorption can also be estimated by comparing with a material test on the same material.

Given the nature of a laser beam, mentioning the reflection is also very important.

EDIT: typos.

Regards,
Sam

Hello @jepho
I am MindlessCorpse from the C3d community.

Itā€™s clear to me from this thread that thereā€™s a lot of information out there and everyone is a bit unsure of what to trust. Iā€™m going to bring this up internally as a video idea and weā€™ll see if we can get some professional opinions on the matter and provide you guys with some definitive answers

3 Likes

Hello @MindlessCorpse.How nice to see you here. How are you doing?

:+1:
Great idea, Colin! I look forward to seeing what you manage to produce.

That would be great!

Hi.

That would be great.

While itā€™s often hard for people to re-evaluate their views, especially if ā€œunnecessary costsā€ are involved, I believe that such a video would go a long way of convincing those who are on the fence about the subject.

What I feel is the most important subject, is the different requirements of different wavelenghts and types of lasers.
Us diode laser users IMO have gotten the proverbial shortest straw when it comes down to protecting our eyes.
Costwise anyway.

Regards,
Sam

For what itā€™s worth, I have two pairs of these that I have been using for about 2 years. I have a 30 watt (7 watt actual output) diode laser that I constantly watch as itā€™s doing itā€™s thing. I just got new glasses about a week ago and specifically asked about my laser use, and the doctor said my eyes are just fine, albeit a little near sighted :wink:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085XZJQD3/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I have great respect for Russ Sadler, so I thought Iā€™d post this video. He claims itā€™s for a co2 but if you watch it, the information is applicable to all lasers and he does admit that. The only effect is a change in the lasers frequency.

He speaks about lenses and shows one that is opaque, if you have a visible light laser, then it will be opaque to that lasers frequency.

What/how the material is affected is based on frequency of the laser. Itā€™s a good video that I 100% agree with and wish more people would watch itā€¦ If I remember right itā€™s about 30 minutes.

I agree with Tesla, in that I believe it resonates with the materials molecules causing the damage, but thatā€™s my view.

CO2 and most hobby lasers are continuous wave (CW), but the fiber is a pulse laser. When itā€™s between pulses it pumps up the energy in the fiber. When it releases the energy the output peak is about 18kW from a 60W laser systemā€¦ All of that power goes though a fiber smaller than a human hairā€¦ pretty incredible machineā€¦

My fiber pulses in the nano second range, there are femtosecond lasersā€¦

Good luck

:smiley_cat:

Safety glasses are meant for reflected, not likely focused, rays. If the plastic is difficult to cut, it is because it is transparent to the laser. If it is opaque to the laser, even though it might be clear, it will absorb energy and melt. This material is the preferred one for absorbing the rays from a reflection. CO2, diode, and UV lasers all require different materials for safety glasses. It is not that complicated folks.

Sorry, I just felt like I had to stir the pot.

And Iā€™ll throw this in, Referencing your above comment about a focused beam, The only place to find a focused beam is at the cutting surface, Consider a 2 inch lens, The initial beam diameter 4 to 6mm, goes to a point 2 inches past the lens, Another 2 inches and it is back to 4-6mm, another 2 inches it is 8-12mm and so on. Unless you are climbing inside the laser cabinet you are not likely to encounter a focused beam.