Understanding PWM

Hello to all,

I’m starting to get used to my new machine (100W Co2 RF source), but I’m having trouble ungraving things in thick paper. I can’t get the fill methode to fire constistantly under 4% of power and I very quickly get through the material. I see that changing the PWM frequency changes the effective power of the laser but in a way I don’t understand.

From my experience I have to augment the power when raising the frequency otherwise the lase will not fire. from the spec of my source, the laser is working from 1-100kHz.

But If I put 5% of power and set over like 25kHz the laser will not fire, I have to up the power if I want to set like 30kHz.

I’m looking for documentation (or any information) that explain this relation between power and PWM frequency and what effectivness it has on the result.

Thx for the help
Clair

RF co2 tubes run in a digital mode, unlike dc excited tubes that are analog.

If you know what PWM is, then you know it’s a ratio of on to off time during a period (frequency).

With an RF machine, you can increase the frequency and get different results as the period of the pwm is changed… How much, you’ll have to experiment.

Does that make sense?

:smiley_cat:

Thx for the responce.

I have some basic knowledge of pulse width modulation. What I’m looking for is some documentation on how does it affect the laser and what does that translate to the result. Sure I’ve made some tests and I’m still doing so but I’m looking for some more theory to complement the practice.

Have a nice day

There’s little formal doc, but the overall concept is straightforward: the PWM percentage linearly controls the laser tube current.

The word “linear” is doing some heavy lifting in there, but it’s pretty close above 30-ish %:

How any particular power affects the material depends entirely on the material / speed / focus, which is what the Material Test tool will tell you.

Thx for the responce and thx for the article.

I must say that I don’t understand the graph you’ve linked in regards to my question about PWM frequency. If I understand the graph correctly it is about the relation between the percentage of the full power regarding the current furnished no ? It has nothing to do with the frequency am I right ?

What @ednisley has posted is what currents he read at specific pwm settings for a glass tube co2.

This chart isn’t applicable to your RF machine.

On your rf metal tube, it will be on whenever the pwm is high and off otherwise.

You can vary the period to change how much energy is applied to the material over that period. Most of us don’t have an rf machine, so I don’t think you’re going to find a lot of people here to help you specifically with your issue.

I think @Dannym has an RF machine he uses… lets wait for his two cents.

:smiley_cat:

What model of laser is it?

For the most part, you don’t need to be modulating anywhere near that high. The spot size of the laser on a 2" lens might be 0.15mm.

Even if you’re really blazing at 400mm/s, the frequency can be as low as about 5KHz before the modulation effects could begin to show up.

Don’t just think of the frequency in KHz- that’s thinking in time. Think of its period as distance. The time period of 5KHz is 0.2milliseconds. When it’s moving at 400mm/s, the spatial period of a PWM cycle is 0.08mm.

A fast-responding RF laser will completely turn off and turn on the beam at 5KHz, but at 400mm/s that period is still only 0.08mm across, about half the width of the spot as it moves.

Now if the PWM was set really slow- a distance of like 3x of spot size at high speed- then you would see the cut start and stop when moving at that high speed. It makes dashes on the paper. But once the PWM period gets narrower than the spot size, the dashes overlap and it all blends into one cut anyways.

And that’s still true if the PWM period is 4%. At 400mm/s, yes it’s only pulsed on for 0.032mm, but when it’s on, the spot size is the same 0.15mm and pulse is still happening every 0.08mm so it will have significant overlap between pulses and should still be a smooth cut.

The performance gets more consistent the lower the PWM is, until it’s so low the cut starts turning into dashes. The point at which that happens depends on the highest speed you’re using. 400mm/s is “pretty darn fast” and most laser cutters won’t even reach that without a cut being several inches long and basically straight.

Set min power to 0%. The machine should basically be linear. The basic (there’s some actual implementation details that make it a bit different than this, but it’s mostly true) way it works is when the controller is accelerating/decelerating on vector cuts and not able to achieve the commanded speed, it will proportionately scale back power between max power and min power. e.g. you set 100% max power and 0% min power, at 400mm/s. It’s making a big rectangle and actually got up to 400mm/s on a side, but now it’s approaching a corner. It’s braking to a stop on the corner, so it will go 300mm/s… 200mm/s… 100mm/s… timed so it will stop at the corner and be 0 mm/s, then goes off the other direction at 100… 200… 300… 400.

At the moments it’s doing 200mm/s even though you asked for 400, if you used 100% max 0% min then it will be scaling power to 50% for you, for that moment. Since it’s taking 2x as long to cover each 0.1mm of the plywood, that always basically delivers the same amount of energy per unit of distance as it slows down/speeds up.

If you asked for 40% max power and 0% min power, it will scale the power to 20% at half speed. Still delivering the same energy per mm.

I see a lot of people who don’t understand min power just set max and min to 100%. So when it starts/stops/corners, it briefly delivers more energy per mm. At the actual corner, where speed is nearly 0, it’s a LOT more. On through cuts, this doesn’t get noticed much. A little wider cut, more flashback from the honeycomb. If you’re trying to vector engrave acrylic and want the line to only go about 1/10th the acrylic’s thickness, setting min power too high will totally make it spike through the full thickness of the material at starts/stops/corners.

Just to put it another way-

If you can get ahold of the mfg’s documentation on pulse shaping, it should tell you what you want to know.

Like for a Coherent Diamond G100, the manual specifies modulation up to 100KHz in freq, but there’s also a 2us minimum on the pulse. It won’t damage anything to use a shorter pulse but if it gives any output, it is not specified what it might be and it may not be consistent.

25KHz would be a 40us total period, but a 5% duty would be the minimum 2us min pulse width. If you kept the same 5% duty but increased PWM freq >25KHz this would not be a legal input.

On that one, you can still get 1% power if you lower PWM to 5KHz. And again the laser isn’t going to have any issue with PWM period being too slow unless you’re going really, really fast.

Keeping your PWM freq as low as the task entails gives more time for the laser to respond. And there’s really no value in using a higher freq than the minimum needed.

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