Ebay vs omtech / monport

Community Laser Talk
1

Im looking to buy a C02 laser. have two diodes but I need more cutting power and the ability to cut acrylic and engrave metal. while I would love to buy a 10k aeon laser or somce 150w laser I do not have that money. I plan to buy the best chiller heater I can get since the laser will be in my garage. very hot in summer and very cold in winter.

My question is? is it really worth the extra 500-700 buck for a omtech or simular on a 60w platform.auto focus and auto bed would be great, I am willing to do with out for a better more reliable laser. Has anyone purchased both or know the major differences. I know they supposedly have many upgrades over the ebay stuff but Im wondering if I would be better to just do the upgrades my self and to a better quality part.

2

I had a small rant on that a while ago ā€¦

Basically, I figured it was worthwhile to get the parts in one crate from OMTech, then proceed under the assumption Iā€™d be doing all the required debugging. Thatā€™s worked out about right.

IMO, buying from a lowest-price seller doesnā€™t actually save any money in the long run (and adds considerable annoyance), but (in the laser market, anyway) buying from a highest-price seller doesnā€™t add nearly that much value.

Also: auto-focus works great after you devote some time to fine-tuning the thing. Not cranking the platform up and down: FTW!

1 Like
3

An additional perk of OmTech is that it makes discussing the specific machine (and finding support for it) more reliable. OMTech makes a ton of lasers, and they have a large use base. Once you get a noname machine, it gets harder to manage maintenance without deep component and machine knowledge.

1 Like
4

@ednisley pretty much on it ā€¦

We buy these from China because they are very low cost. My Chinese fiber cost me just under $7k, but a friend is a gunsmith stated itā€™s the equivalent to their $70k US made machineā€¦ I wouldnā€™t have one at that priceā€¦ same with all my lasersā€¦ none are US built.

Iā€™ve bought from both my big ones from Cloud Ray and OMTechā€¦ I will continue to use Cloud Ray, the parts Iā€™ve bought from them are what they are advertised.

My 50W China Blue from OMTech read 44W with a Mahoney power meterā€¦ about right for an 880mm tube length. Of course they knew it wasnā€™t 50W capable unless I run it in the red zoneā€¦

Even Cloud Ray has issuesā€¦ one of their machines was listed as able to produce 1500 lpi, that I find impossible to believe and some of the recommendations the make on-line are ludicrousā€¦

All of these use support that China based, so any e-mail will take a 24 hour return timeā€¦ half the time they donā€™t understand you or you donā€™t understand themā€¦

I continue to use Cloud Ray for larger purchases. I do, buy and use OMTech coolant but I could only get it from a second vendor from Amazonā€¦ at $10 more a gallonā€¦ I paid < $40 for a gallonā€¦ I see, not only has the price gone up at OMTech, but they are sold outā€¦

Itā€™s < $40 from Amazonā€¦

Good to -31F (-35C)ā€¦ donā€™t know where you areā€¦?

I use a 5202 type chiller and Iā€™ve used it in the desert where the garage was 115F and it kept the tube down to 68F while I ranā€¦ I had to start the chiller to get it cool enough to run itā€¦ The 02 version has two i/o for dual machines or tubesā€¦

CW-5000-5200-Chiller-Manual.pdf.txt (390.6 KB)

cw-5000_5200_industrial_chiller_maintenance_manual.pdf.txt (1.5 MB)

When you buy, use a credit card so you have some recourseā€¦

You will probably modify itā€¦ my co2, before and recentlyā€¦

original-current-20220614
original-current-202206142991Ɨ1005 556 KB

Good luck

:smile_cat:

1 Like
5

You might need to use a different spectrum of light to achieve this. CO2 is best for organic material. Fiber will provide greater control for ablating metals.

6

Iā€™ve got to chime in hereā€¦ just my take.

If you have a problem with an eBay laserā€¦ the problem is yours.
If you have a problem with an Amazon laserā€¦ the problem is yours, and you have some recourse with Amazonā€™s return policy.
If you have a problem with an Omtech laserā€¦ the problem is yours, and some relatively local support people that may or may not be helpful, but if you need parts they will likely come from China. On a boat. From China. You know the story.
If you have a problem with a Monport laserā€¦ the problem is yours, and a couple people that claim to be here in the U.S., but are hiding in a pigeon hole at a Mailboxes-R-Us in the Pacific Northwest, or a New York based phone number, that will not respond in a timely manner and really donā€™t care once the sale is closed anyway. In most cases however for complete laser machines, they will ship out of a California warehouse. But if you need partsā€¦ itā€™s coming on a boat. A slow boat. From China. (Figuratively speaking of course).

I too, am a frustrated Monport customerā€¦ and we are still working through things.
It has taken weeks to come to any form of agreement.

For Chinese manufactured laser machines itā€™s just the nature of the beast.
They will make claims that their equipment is unable to achieve, and they will overhype their capabilities to make a sale.

If you are comfortable working out your own problems, or being creative with your own repairs, the cost savings can be good. But if you need someone to hold your hand or walk you through things with any regularity, a U.S. based manufacturer will cost you accordingly.

I have learned, as others have mentioned, that there are some great user communities for supportā€¦ but most of them (not forum based) are on Facebookā€¦ a place I never really wanted to participate in, but now have to.

Just my $.02.
Jim

7

I live in Tucson Arizona

8

yes that is true you cannot actually engrave but you can mark. I can to an extent with my diodes but it is pretty lack luster. and a fiber is a though as well. I still need to figure out which I would initially get more use out of.

1 Like
9

I fully understand that none of the chinses of less costly lasers are going to be the level they are sold at and from what I have seen a decent amount of the higher prices laser too! I know a 50-60w is not the greatest but it is a major step up in speed and ability to a diode. I still plan to run my diodes on the side as well they are good a certain things but slow as molasses on a cold winters day. aditionally you cant do much after you got it. a c02 can be upgraded with different thing to make it more reliable more precise etc, to a certain point. I fell into the trap of believing youtubers that the longer ray was the greatest thing since slice cheese. It is a good unit for the money and i got a great sale price but it leave me wanting more. I used to be a CNC machinist so Iā€™m looking for a little more precision and consistency that a 400 diode will not do.

I do like the amazon idea that makes things a lot better when it comes to a problem. after reading your issues monport gives me a bad feeling.

oh and one last thing that probably should be mentioned, as i stated before I used to be a machinist, I am a Electronics Technician and a jack of all trade master of none. so Iā€™m Pretty handy with fixing thing and breaking things

1 Like
10

Being able to diagnose and repair these machines on your own will be useful. Communication from monport about an issue i had with one of the hall sensors being broken (not monportā€™s fault) was painfully lacking. Just replaced it myself with a unit i got off of amazon. Machine has been great otherwise, i do have the 80w. Cloudray customer service has been far better, still usually a 24hr turn around, but they have been great with sending out parts.

11

Coming from a newb.

I own Monport CO2 55w. My new Fiber is a 50w BWM.

If it werenā€™t for forums like this, I would still be trying to figure out why my ā€œMonportā€ rotary wouldnā€™t work with my Monport Laser.

The guy that was ā€œsupposeā€ to be US Support for Monport was busy running a youtube channel pumping mfgā€™s hardware. Ticket system for tech support was iffy at best.

The guys on this forum must have their backs breaking, cuz Iā€™ve rode them like a horse, extracting all the tid bits I can get from them.

Just rolling the dice hope it doesnā€™t come up craps.

Good luck in your quest.

12

I am seriously thinking about starting a youtube channel just to let the newbs and what no know the realities of what they are getting into. I watched videos and then tried thing and there is no way it will work, or they are only doing it to make a video becasue no one will buy the thing being made it is only neat to watch it being made, and my favorite one, use the product i get for free to push on my youtube videos to make it work. You need 100k in tools and a showroom workshop to get anything done. your cant use harbor freight tools they dont workā€¦ blah blah blah. I want to let people know the little things that are so conveniently left out or over look about different things. I feel like people are so worried about pushing their agenda and use being helpful as a mask. I wish I would have found someone that just said it like it is and not made it seem like sugar and spice.

2 Likes
13

Well not sure how much I can help. I am still pretty new art all this. I have 2 xtools and an Omtech 100w red and black laser. I can not say enough about buying direct from Omtech. The price works out the same as buying from someone like Amazon. I did not get the auto focus and auto bed. Maybe it was me but did not see the need. I am looking at adding a camera to the Omtech. Early on I will tell you that support from both of these companies were great. Next year I plan to add another laser. It will be Omtech. For me the price and support for doing something with a new type of laser is very important. Plus the 5202 chiller has worked great. Just my 2 cents.

1 Like
14

Like other people have said with CO2 you really wonā€™t be engraving, itā€™s the wrong wavelength. I can cut metal with my CO2 and cut shallow lines as marks but it has limited utility as engraving. Commercially co2 marking is usually limited to marking part numbers on pieces.

You really need a MOPA or a q-switched DPSS or fiber. But those wonā€™t do much of anything to most acrylics.

1 Like
15

Yes, I understand what I meant was it is much better than a diode. more than anything the speed and ability to cut and engrave clear acrylic is a nice thing as well. speed and size being the most important as well as power which go back to speed again. Im actually on the fence about getting a fiber galvo instead of a c02 next.

but since I cant sell anything of the stuff I make the speed of a galvo might be useless. just cant nail down which I want but the buying form eBay vs a company is virtually the same with both lasers. I really think I will go through amazon since I will have them on my side with issues.

16

If you buy from the Cloud Ray site, you get benefits that donā€™t come with the same companies vendor sites on eBay or amazon.

Read the fine printā€¦ before you purchaseā€¦

Good luck

:smile_cat:

1 Like
17

Id buy from cloudray or light-object or any importer that has stock. Amazon wonā€™t be able to do much if it fails in warranty and outside of about 30 days of receipt.

1 Like
18

I have had an OmTech AF3545-80w for about 18 months and other than a couple of issues (non mechanicalā€¦the wires on the key were loose after about 6 monthsā€¦pushed them on and not an issue since). I accidently messed up the USB plug (input) on the side of the laser (100% my fault). I emailed support and within 5 days I had a replacement plugā€¦free of charge.

1 Like
20

I purchased a 60W omtech off ebay simply because it seemed like the most value/$ and I havenā€™t been disappointed. My plan was to purchase the basic machine since I couldnā€™t build that for less than I could buy it and then add the upgrades I needed when I needed them.

I didnā€™t get auto-focus and after using the machine for the last two years or so I donā€™t regret it. If Iā€™m working with sheet stock I might have to turn the knob a few times to switch between different materials but itā€™s really no big deal. If I swap in the rotary then I just open the bottom door and use the belt to make larger adjustments.

I didnā€™t purchase a cooler. The unit came with a simple aquarium pump. I put that into a 5g bucket, added a thermometer, put some fittings in the lid, and sealed it up. When the first pump died I got another one and picked up a small radiator that was marketed for PC water cooling. Now I sit that radiator in a different bucket that I can refill with ice water as needed. It gets hot in the summer but I can easily keep the water temp in the 60s.

I took the money I didnā€™t spend on the cooler and used it on a nice compressor and Cloudray ultimate air assist kit. Iā€™ve gotten a lot more value out of the compressor and air assist kit than I think I would have gotten out of the cooler. Air assist seems essential for switching between cutting and engraving and Lightburn makes it easy to setup a complete job. I canā€™t recommend the ultimate air assist enough.

Given the sort of jobs I run I usually have more issues with air supply than water cooling and even now Iā€™d invest in a bigger tank before getting a cooler. However, if you go for the larger 80W or 100W that might change the equation. I couldnā€™t justify the 80/100W machines for the type of work I do.

Be prepared to replace most of the bolts and nuts in the shell of the machine. From the factory they are not made from a metal that can survive crossing the ocean and sitting in a warehouse.

Be prepared to replace a lot of the wiring, switches, etc. These were made by the same people that made the aforementioned bolts and nuts. Strangely, the wiring between the power supply, motor controllers, and motors has been fine. Itā€™s just things on the AC side like the main power switch, the cable connectors to the wall, etc.

Throw away all of the tubing for the water cooling that comes with the machine. All of it. This stuff is made by people who couldnā€™t get hired by either the nuts and bolt company or the wiring and electronics suppliers.

I had to install an ammeter and I stay well within the recommended power settings for my tube. I think some of new machines come with this installed.

I also replaced my electrical interlock. I think mine came with a key but no emergency stop. I took out the key since thereā€™s very little chance a rouge band of hooligans will take mine for a joy ride and put an emergency stop button in itā€™s place.

I also picked up a tp-link travel router that can be setup in wifi bridge mode and Lightburn can talk to the machine via wifi now.

Other than that Iā€™ve had zero trouble with my controller. The gantry and primary mechanical parts for the laser have also worked great. Iā€™ve got around 60 ā€˜laser onā€™ hours on my first tube so Iā€™m not doing commercial work driving it 6-8 hours/day.

Iā€™m sure there are people that would read that and consider it too much trouble. Iā€™ve enjoyed tinkering with the machine and thatā€™s been part of the fun.

The machine has actually exceeded my expectations based on some of the research I did before getting it.

4 Likes
21

I have a 60w OMTech with 5200 chiller. upgraded the air assist and ventilation. I LOVE IT.
I use Lightburn and a Lightburn camera. I disconnected my autofocus. I do love the motorized z control of the bed, but I could live without it if I was trying to save money. If you buy OMTech, order directly from OMTech not on Ebay or Amazon. Iā€™ve had good luck with service. at the very beginning a needed help (operator error) and I scheduled a video service call with them. Very helpful. Have not had a problem I couldnā€™t solve in 2 years.

1 Like