Thanks for running this on your gear @NicholasL. Looks like grayscale is working as expected. 
Alright, restart. Last week I created a project using the scales. I posted that actual project minus showing the logo, showing the scales on wood. Initially, the project’s dragon scales did not engrave anything, meaning it engraved out a pure rectangle that was flat and without any image. I looked at the preview and saw the scales all in black and white with the red outline on the border and thought that is what it’s supposed to look like, but then I put a “cut” border around the dragon scales, checked the preview and the preview image changed to pure red dragon scales. When I went to engrave that, it worked. The wood project I showed is the result of those “red/pink scales” in the preview. Which is why I say the grayscale image preview needs to be red/pink, otherwise you get a max burn or just a flat burn with no picture. It’s odd, and I cant explain why it’s this way, but that’s what worked. Ive done several other grayscales with red/pinks, and all worked. Now, I cant get the grayscale for any image to show up red/pink, and consequently, they all fail to engrave. This is why I said, why does it work one day, and not the next? Does LB need a new update?
sry for late reply, this forum locks more responses if you are new member. had to wait 20 hours.
This is part of the automated security and anti-spam measures. I have bumped your profile, so this should no longer be limited in this way.
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Alright, here’s the proof. I ran several tests today, but I just want to keep it simple. Below you will see pictures. 1 million fake Pesos to the member who can tell me the difference between the two examples. If you said, one looks smooth, clean, and even wet, while the other looks rough, dirty, and dry, congrats a bank in Mexico will be calling you shortly. The point of these two examples is that both are using the same settings. The better looking one I did three weeks ago using a 50, 30, 10 spd/pwr and .45 gamma 225 dpi. I created the same project again today cutting out a swatch using the same settings… the SAME! Why are they different? Answer: the good resulting project from weeks before had a red/pink preview when I did it. The dry and crusty one I did today had a preview with no red/pink in the preview. The same previews members have shown in the forum in response to my question actually are showing a version that results in a drier appearance. The reason I said grayscale is not working, is because if you scale these down to bookmark size, the laser literally evaporates the image (now), but only days before, my bookmark came out perfectly. Once again, is there a glitch, or does LB just need an update? If you are a business owner who makes a number of widgets or wtvr for customers, you cant print one day with one kind of quality (hopefully good) and wake up the next with a disastrous one.
That wet gummy look could be due to a variation of natural characteristics in the material.
Are you sure you are engraving on the same piece of wood, same side, with the woodgrain going the same way?
There may also be differences relating to the direction you are engraving from and towards relative to the direction the air nozzle blows the majority of the residue, e.g. consider the bottom “dry” photo, if it starts at the top and finishes at the front while air pushes residue mostly towards the front - then changing the scan angle by 180deg so it starts from the front may leave more of the residue behind on the part since less residue will get engraved over.
not to sound rude, but c’mon man… its balsa… both pieces came from same batch and I have several pieces with similar results… thats why I use 50, 30, 10… I keep telling you that it has to do with whether or not the preview shows a red/pink image… take it as true and start from there…
I do believe you are getting different results, I’m just trying to figure out what could be causing them.
You mention again the red you normally see in the preview image…this is not related to your problem, why? - because grayscale is very different to other image modes in that the whole image gets burnt, white included, which means you will not see any red coloured traversals in the image except where there are areas of transparency, or when bi-directional scanning is off.
Do you have any other old project files with images in them that you previously engraved using grayscale? - you should be able to open them (don’t import them as that will retain the settings in the project you are currently in), and send them to the laser again to test you get same results.
While I “agree” with you on the way a grayscale works, it still doesnt change the fact that when I had a red/pink preview I had significantly better results than when I now dont. Yes, I have other engraving projects, and they also now dont show the red/pink. Its as if this mystery feature disappeared overnight. The images here are of a Lotus Exige. When I opened the file, it had Grayscale 50,30,10 with 254 dpi as its’ last settings. It is a little worn, because I was so impressed with the raised grain and color, so I kept touching it. lol! But otherwise, it still looks great. The bad news is, I also opened the preview window, and now it doesnt show up red/pink either, so tomorrow when I run a test on it, I expect it to look like trash.
While these are using the same settings the way greyscale and the other modes work is fundamentally different, hence the different results. Greyscale varies the power according to the darkness of the image, and generally gives unpredictable and undesirable results, because as the laser scans along it is (by nature of using the greyscale mode) burning areas that it’s just burned, which get darker and hotter, and this means it’s more likely to bring the sap out of woods as you have found. This issue is compounded when resizing an object as this changes the max speeds reached.
The other modes dither the design into off/on commands (all at full power), and generally produce much better results. I recommend finding your image settings using stucki or jarvis.It will give you much more predictable results.
Here’s a bit more info about image settings more broadly:
It’s a very big topic though, and one of those wicked problems where each setting affects the results of multiple others. Images engravings can be really frustrating, essentially.
all that you just said is not the issue… Im not going down that rabbit hole…
The behavior you’re reporting - getting good results only when the preview goes ‘pink’ - strongly suggests that you are getting good results using a dithering mode, and not Grayscale, because Grayscale does not work that way - it doesn’t show traversal lines in the preview.
You’ve shared tests with a few weeks time in between them, so, most likely, your settings were just different a few weeks ago. That is why you’re being encouraged to ‘go down the rabbit hole’ of understanding the underlying behavior behind the different Image Modes.
So let me get this straight Tyler, you’re saying I just totally forgot which setting I used (grayscale), when I purposely used that setting knowing it was the best for the image? I actually own a Lotus, we love these cars, so why wouldnt I go through the effort to make the best image for this car? So youre supposing amnesia? Amnesia?.. Even though the setting is clearly saved, amnesia?.. Can we stop with the gaslighting here?
sejiro7, I hear you. I would like to offer a solution. I can not at this point. I do not understand the issue, the tests you conducted nor the results you have shared. But, I want to.
I understand you remember having some settings and have a memory of how these settings produced. I take you at your word and will not challenge this, as I was not there when you did these things. You remember seeing red/pink traversal moves in the Preview you saw. Got it.
‘Show traversal moves’ is purely a visual option in the Preview to show when and where the laser head will move when producing the job shown in the Preview. It shows when the laser moves when not firing. That is it. This is its only function. It does not alter the image, nor image output in any way. And it never has.
Here I show several images, the top is set to Grayscale, the middle set to Newsprint, and the bottom image is set to the default of Stucki. You should see how the traversal moves, shown in red, differ based on the image mode set to that layer. Laser moving while the beam is off shows in red. You will not see these red moves if the laser beam is firing at this point in the job.
Grayscale is produced with a continuous beam, while altering the power. The beam is not turned on and off while traveling, as the other modes do. You will see traversal for the overscan only.
For Newsprint, you can see when the beam is toggled On and Off.
You say, “Grayscale not functioning”, yet we have demonstrated, on our own, internal gear, that it is working, using your artwork.
I would like to see the results of the testing @berainlb requested above,
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Thanks Rick, at least we’re getting somewhere. Trust me, I know the red/pink has nothing to do with the final output, or rather it “shouldnt”, it’s just that only when I saw these traversal lines was the quality of the grayscale optimum. So when I say grayscale is not functioning, I do not mean AT ALL. You, myself, we all can see I am getting some kind of result. The question is why is it now the results are not optimum? Why is it only when I received the red/pink preview the output image was optimum, and when I didn’t I got a crater or less than stellar output? To regard one of the other member’s response that grayscale
If this truly were the case, people would stop buying your product. There has to be a level of control and consistency that is observable and reliable. This quote stood in stark contrast to the evidence of the same project with same settings giving drastically different results. Im am 100% positive your company would not have created and spent arduous hours upon hours and years upon years to give the customer a product that periodically spits out disasters with exact settings and materials. So my next question is, I see you have a red/pink dog in grayscale (and Im assuming you didnt PS it), since my projects did in fact also preview in this way before, but now they dont, 1. is there a glitch? 2. is this an intermittent feature? and 3. can LB devs create a patch that addresses the extreme variance that occurs when doing grayscale as it did with my project? Because if grayscale is working as you say, then grayscale is not consistent or optimal as I showed in my projects from days or weeks ago.
Taking another stab here, in greyscale mode, I don’t get the red lines crossing the image when I have bidirectional mode enabled. When I have it disabled I do. If you turn bidirectional scanning off, is that more like the previews you were getting before?
Else, sorry if I missed it, but have you tried rolling back to a release when you knew it was working as you expected? That might help us all understand the differences you’re describing.
This is a misclassification, let’s start clearing this up first. What you are looking at is not a “dog in grayscale”. It is a black and white image set to ‘Stucki’ as the Image Mode for the layer it is on. (same image as above) The traversal lines for this image mode produces differently, due to the on / off nature of how this image is set to produce. Grayscale works different, and is consistently on, adjusting the power based on the color and the range provided using Min and Max power. There are no traversal lines during a grayscale image production because the laser is not turned off while moving across the art to be produced.
With Stucki, and the remaining dither modes, the laser turns on and off for Black, skipping the “white” parts which you see filled with traversal lines when that switch is on.
If I zoom in, I hope you will see this a bit clearer.
If I set that same Dog to ‘Image Mode’=‘Grayscale’, here is what it looks like in Preview to compare. Note the laser does not produce a series of dashed lines to reproduce this image as it does in ‘Stucki’. It turns on the beam and varies the power as it goes to produce the shading.
I want to get to the point where we both trust each other in this exchange. As mentioned, the Preview has nothing to do with the generated output, apart from displaying what will be sent to the laser. Think of the Preview window as another output device, only it does not have a beam or moving parts, just a display.
LightBurn strives to provide just that, so we should work from this knowledge going forward. That said, this is lasing, so we have all learned that “consistency” is an interesting word when talking about producing what we are after. I have personal experience using the exact same file, with the same settings on the same material and the same day, not producing consistency. The room temp, the beam temp, the ambient humidity, all have an impact on the consistency of production. There are many variables outside the control of software, regardless of who wrote it. I have adjusted my expectations and consider testing prior to production an extremely valuable time and material saver. Keeping this in mind, LightBurn works very hard to produce reliable and consistent output data.
Something you may already be aware of, but worth repeating, Grayscale Image Mode production using a CO2 laser is one of the most difficult techniques to dial-in. CO2 beams ablates and destroys the fine details found in many heatmap or grayscale images. Especially when using natural fiber materials such as wood. Folks see some very cool, deep engraves and think, “Yeah, I want to do that!”, then find out the challenges to getting it to not look like mush or burnt to a crisp, trying to get the fine detail produced. It can be done, and produce consistently, when managing for these factors.
Really? I don’t have the time. Second, there is zero upside for anyone here to behave in this manner. I would not waste my time nor yours trying to represent something that LightBurn is not? There is no need or value added with these sorts of comments, so please - let’s keep trying to address your direct technical questions about LightBurn and lasing.
I can not verify at this time. We have not been able to reproduce what you are observing. Not enough known — yet. It is software, so not out of the realm of possibility.
I don’t know what this is? Do you mean it works, but only sporadically? If so, see answer one.
Yes, the LightBurn devs are capable of modifying / adjusting our code. One of the most important things we keep an eye on are bugs and refinements to provide the best possible experience using our products. If we discover or learn of a repeatable bug or an enchantment to help the user get more out of our efforts, we work hard to be responsive and address as soon as possible.
I would like to pause this current discussion, and ask that we start anew. I might review “what am I producing” or “what is the project”, the material choice and the desired result. Then pick the art and method of production. Other than “this is the one I used before”, what is the reason for choosing Grayscale when producing this project? I am suggesting there may be a better, more consistent choice when answering these questions.
Please advise.
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Hi All,
Sorry, I stepped away from this after the first few days as this was getting stressful, bcuz the product I was getting was not the same quality anymore. To address BillieRueben , yes that is very astute of you to find that and point that out about the deselection of the bi-directional mode. But I never uncheck this mode. I did try , and in the pics you will see that yes, it causes the image to go “pink”, but not red/pink. And to Rick, I realized after I messaged back I had the thought of the dog being grayscale all wrong, but it still all brings me back to this point. 1. Grayscale DID show the preview in red/pink, and while it shouldnt be a factor, the moment it stopped, the quality instantly changed-- for the worst. 2. I finally have more proof. I found a snapshot of the first set of scales I was testing way before I started this topic forum, and when otherwise, nothing was wrong other than the Grayscale periodically not showing up red/pink in preview. I remember trying to figure out why it was intermittent. So I captured the image of when it was. More importantly, it stayed that way for a good duration as far as I know. The only problem I had with the outputs was that they were not as depth defined as I would like. I even hired a Fiverr seller to do a 3D heightmap to make it more profound before tossing the whole first style of dragonscale out before choosing a new one, the one we’ve been seeing so far. The one I have shown previously in the forum is the one I am trying to use currently, and it also showed in preview as red/pink ie. the bookmarks. What I am showing now are the images of the first (prototype?) style of dragonscales I used before starting this forum.
This image shows the “prototype” dragonscale when I was first making tests. Notice the image shows itself in red/pink. This is in Grayscale, as I only chose to do it as such, and later had a version with Jarvis.
This is the same prototype image created snapshotted last night after this whole forum thing started. I wanted to show how the image no longer shows in red/pink. No new settings were made. I opened it up, and everything looked the same in the settings as I saved them.
Here is the same set of proto scales but now in Jarvis. Jarvis of course will show up in red/pink, and notice the dithering in the light areas of each scale-- different than Grayscale, so this is clearly Jarvis. Same, this snap was taken last night with no changes to settings other than switching the image to Jarvis.
Here is the entire LB tray as of last night.
Here is the image with bi directional mode turned to OFF, as Billie suggested maybe I had this setting turned off. As you can see, the image of red/pink is far different than before, showing that I never had bi directional in OFF position.
And lastly, the proof that the original red/pink dragonscale proto WAS taken on 3/24/23 before this forum started. Once again, my burns came out best once I finally adjusted them to 50/30/10 and the gamma to .045 (this took time to fine tune, but it worked). I will try to send images of the samples of this proto as I was working on fine tuning the settings to what worked. Remember, this is the proto, not what I am working with currently (which also at one point showed red/pink and got great results).
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