Print and Cut not working properly/misaligned

etpenn · February 2, 2025, 8:10pm

Very good point on it being square. That is likely the issue in regards to my jog numbers not lining up perfectly. And not sure why I did not even think of it.

In regards to my printer and machine being dimensionally accurate, all I can say is that yes they are. When I printed my last set I printed a 5mm square along with it and when measuring it was within 1/100 of a mm. Same goes for items I’ve cut on my later. All have been within 1/100 of a mm.

You asked if my laser when homed is at 0,0. I can only say I think so. It hits the x limit then y limit switch. How would I confirm it’s at anything other than 0,0?

I also stated above that for some reason, after homing, my laser won’t allow me to jog between 1-5mm on the y axis. If I want to jog 5mm I have to jog more than 5 and then backtrack by the appropriate amount. I wonder if this is an issue with my y axis limit switch placement?

What is the MOST confusing is that I have gotten it to work but ONLY when I’ve printed on my home computer and chose do not scale print, but then chose the “scaled” option when sending it from Lightburn.

berainlb · February 2, 2025, 8:46pm

After homing, push Get Position in Move window. What is reported?

Are you determining this based on reported position in LightBurn or by physical movement?

In which direction are you jogging? Away from homing switches? This definitely seems like a problem.

This wouldn’t be a common problem scenario but I suppose it’s possible. Can you confirm that the head is physically moved off the homing switch? Meaning it’s not still engaged?

Can you run these commands in Console and return the full output:

$H
$I
$$
$#
?

I’m guessing at least part of this is a red herring. You could try deliberately printing larger or smaller and retesting. I’m guessing it would still work. If it doesn’t that could possibly reveal more.

etpenn · February 2, 2025, 9:35pm

<Home|MPos:0.000,0.000,0.000|FS:0,0|Pn:P|WCO:0.000,0.000,0.000>

ok

[VER:1.1f.20230606:]

[OPT:VZHL,35,254]

Target buffer size found

ok

$0=10

$1=25

$2=0

$3=1

$4=0

$5=0

$6=0

$10=1

$11=0.010

$12=0.002

$13=0

$20=1

$21=1

$22=1

$23=3

$24=25.000

$25=3500.000

$26=250

$27=3.000

$30=1000

$31=0

$32=1

$33=1

$34=1

$35=0

$36=0

$37=1

$39=1

$100=160.000

$101=160.000

$102=160.000

$110=8000.000

$111=8000.000

$112=100.000

$120=500.000

$121=500.000

$122=20.000

$130=300.000

$131=200.000

$132=200.000

ok

[G54:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G55:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G56:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G57:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G58:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G59:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G28:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G30:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[G92:0.000,0.000,0.000]

[TLO:0.000]

[PRB:0.000,0.000,0.000:0]

ok

sys.aborts

JY230 INIT SUCCESS

MonPort

Grbl 1.1f [‘$’ for help]

here is the report. I have no idea what any of it means tho

When I home and do “get position” I get 0,0. When I go to jog 1mm my Y axis point changes in lightburn but my laser head moves about 1mm and back into position no matter how many times I push the move button. I have provided pictures of what is happening as I still do not know if/how people go about uploading or sharing videos here. If I move 6 or more mm from home my laser will in fact move, so what I am assuming has happened is that ive been jogging a couple of mm and realized its not moving phyically, but in lightburn it has said it has moved, thus leading to discrepincies in the print and cut positioning. and im assuming the ones that have worked correctly I simply jogged enough from home to jump past the little hiccup its having.

This only happens along the Y axis from the home position only. Once I have moved far enough from home, I am able to move any amount of mm. and from home on the X axis I can move any amount of mm with no issues

berainlb · February 2, 2025, 9:51pm

The data is out of order from what I would have expected but I don’t see anything obviously wrong in the output.

If you’re losing motion then for sure that would be a problem and right now this seems the most likely cause of the print and cut issue. However, this should have caused a more apparent shift in Y than X, but is that the case?

Up to how many attempts have you made on this? Can you try up to 10 times at 1mm increments if you haven’t already tried.

After doing this, are you able to move in 1mm increments? I think you’ve confirmed this but want to make sure.

Can you confirm that the limit switch for Y is full disengaged after homing?

Videos can’t be shared directly. You need to upload to a 3rd party and link here.

To me this sounds like a physical or hardware issue. Check your belt and make sure that the teeth are not damaged in any way. Check belt near stepper pully when in home position. Do you have full tooth engagement?

Do a generalized mechanical review of the machine and make sure things are well sorted. Belts are properly tensioned, screws are secured, etc.

etpenn · February 2, 2025, 10:14pm

As far as I can tell it is completely disengaged from the limit switch.

In the pictures provided I pushed the move button 23 times in 1mm increments resulting in still no movement as shown in the 4th picture. If I do move 6 or more then yes I am able to move in as little as .5mm increments.

The discrepancies seem to happen on both the X and Y axis in varying degrees from attempt to attempt I assume based on how many “jogs” I’ve done with no motion.

Here is a link to a video illustrating my issue. Hopefully the link works. I’ll do my best to do a mechanical look over but I honestly don’t know if I’ll know if something is wrong or not

etpenn · February 3, 2025, 9:49pm

Here is another video demonstrating my issue.

hopefully you can see it all ok, I wanted my computer and laser in view at the same time.

As you can see when I turn on, my laser homes. As far as I can tell it is doing it correctly.
When I try and move the laser 2mm it “moves” but does not actually go anywhere, even though the controller recognizes the motion.
I then change to 12mm and it moves just fine.
I then rehome and switch back to 2mm to demonstrate I am able to move small amounts on the X axis from the home position.

You can also see how my gantry is able to move off of the home position by doing things like framing. And I also show how if i push the jog button a lot in a row it kind of forces it to move, but even after taking my hand off the computer it seems to need to “catch up” with all the clicks

Any thoughts???

berainlb · February 4, 2025, 3:28am

Try these tests and report results:

Home machine, jog to 20,20 in a single move. Jog back to 0,0 (not homing). Try moving Y down by 1mm. What happens?
With power disconnected, manually move the laser head across the full range of the bed. Do this slowly as this movement induces current back to the board. Do you feel any backlash, especially on Y axis? Or any greater resistance at any point in travel?
It looks like there may be something pulling back the laser head toward the back of the machine. Is there a cable, or hose pulling in that direction?
In video 2, it looks like Y movements down are continuously being pulled back after moving down. That’s definitely a problem. There should be no springback.

Were you able to complete a mechanical review of the machine? Did you uncover anything?

One thing to try is to switch $1 GRBL configuration to 255 to keep the stepper motors always engaged. This may help prevent springback. Run this in Console:

$1=255

Rerun your Y-axis tests. Do things behave differently? If so, there’s definitely a mechanical issue going on. Don’t consider the $1 change as a proper fix as it would only be masking the primary issue.

A couple of possibilities:

There may be a coupling that connects the left and right sides of the Y-axis. This imparts motion from one stepper to both sides of the machine. Check to see if that’s loose.
Check that the machine is square. Are the left and right sides of the machine aligned such that they’re both equidistant to the top and bottoms of the machine? If the machine is askew this could cause uneven forces and the springback that you’re seeing.
As mentioned earlier, look for anything that could be dragging on the machine.

etpenn · February 5, 2025, 12:26am

I ran through all the tests.

Homing, jogging 20,20 back to 0,0 and then trying 1mm resulted in the machine doing the same thing as before. “moving” but not actually moving.

Power disconected I slowly moved the laser head around some and noticed no irregularities from any spots.

As far as I can tell there is nothing that would prevent the head from moving on the Y axis, especially since if I do greater than 5mm it moves on the axis just fine.

As far as a mechanical review I did about as much as I could since I really dont know anything about the machine itself. I did check squareness of the gantries and they seem to check out. All cables I can see seem to be in tact and plugged in.

I then ran $1=255 in console and re ran the tests to all the same results.

I then tried to run a print and cut (one that I had previously had a success on from my home printer running at “scaled”) and made sure my first jog was well over 5mm. Jogged to position 1, found center and marked it. Then jogged to position 2 and marked it. I then ran it “non scaling” and could immediatly tell it was going to be off, so I stopped, reset print and cut, re marked, and re ran with “scaled” and it began to cut essentially the exact same spot as before.

I thought possibly if I was able to find position for no funny unaccounted for movement then maybe it would work. I then decided to cut a 24.2 inch square to make sure my machine was cutting dimensionally acurate and it was within .01 mm of acurate.

As of yet, the only successful print and cut I have done was printing from my home printer with “do not scale” turned on for the print, but then selecting “scaled” from the print and cut wizard.

I have provided a link to a google drive folder with the PDF file I printed from (created in illustrator), the illustrator file itself, as well as the SVG I cut from. As far as I can tell, the dimensions in AI are identical to the dimensions in LB after SVG import.
Google Drive Lightburn

So if I am lining up with the two points with my laser and running not scaled OR scaled one of them should give me accurate cuts right??

etpenn · February 5, 2025, 12:38am

Also, since I entered the $1=255 into console, and it did not seem to work, is that something I need to undo now?

berainlb · February 5, 2025, 1:23am

Yes. No point keeping that. Enter in Console:

$1=25

I’m a bit surprised that made no difference, though. I can’t think of anything else common that would cause the entirety of the symptoms you’re experiencing.

I still suspect something physical/mechanical.

You needn’t really know mechanical for the check. Simply follow the chain of motion from the stepper to the next component and keep following that path. Look for any weaknesses in that chain. Check that screws are properly tensioned for every component of that chain, specifically the grub screws for the pinion gears and any linkages.

Can you confirm that you’ve configured 72 DPI for your SVG import settings in LightBurn?

Not sure where next to take this. If you can’t find anything mechanically wrong then it’s possible that either your stepper motor or stepper driver is failing. Not clear to me why that would only be occurring near home position. This is why I thought you might have had an issue with teeth on your belts.

etpenn · February 5, 2025, 1:54am

I can confirm I have 72 DPI import settings on.

I will take another look over this stuff tomorrow when I get off work. I have seen a few things about it possibly being my y axis belt being over tensioned so I will look up how to adjust that and see if it helps.

Were you able to look at the files I provided and see if there are any issues with them or if they SHOULD be producing the results I am after? Again, very confused as to why I am able to succesfully print and cut but only from my home printer on “scaled”.

I know its not impossible but when I bought the machine the guy I bought it from said it only had around 8 hours on it (I have no reason to not trust him as he is a friend) so I feel like the likelyhood of something to be worn out is low, but not impossible

Thanks so much for all your help

thelmuth · February 5, 2025, 2:32am

This thread is intriquing me as I was helping another user earlier today, who has a K40 that is exhibiting similar, but not identical symptoms. Unfortunately we have not found a solution there either.

I just downloaded and checked your files. Your SVG, PDF and the top half of your AI file, align perfectly. Your AI file however contains a second set of the same graphics and they are slightly misaligned. Although not nearly as much as your results on the laser. I’m convinced that problem is caused by the erratic movement of your gantry. Now, why it’s doing that is yet to be determined.

This is the other thread. I pointed her here as well, thinking maybe something common would reveal itself.

berainlb · February 5, 2025, 3:14am

I did review the files and they look fine to me with only the question about DPI settings being a potential issue.

How reliably are you able to successfully do the print and cut using that method? Is it 100%? If you measure prints from your home printer vs work printer are the dimensions the same?

Perhaps not worn, but rather damaged. Some of these things can come damaged from factory.

berainlb · February 5, 2025, 3:39am

Between the other thread and this one I’m wondering if this is an issue of not enough current from the stepper driver. That could explain why $1=255 made no difference although specifically testing to see if the motor held was not done.

@etpenn, can you reenable $1=255 and check to see if you can manually move the laser head while powered on? Specifically along the Y-axis.

Separately, are you able to take a photo of the controller board? With some focus on the stepper drivers.

etpenn · February 5, 2025, 4:35pm

What else would I change in regards to DPI settings? Something inside of Illustrator or lightburn?

Ive done it successfully 2 times now. I will be running more tests tonight, just did not have the time I was hoping to last night.

Want to make sure I understand that I will be moving it by hand WITH the machine on correct?

I can absolutly take a picute but I am not totally sure which one the stepper drivers would be specifically. Is there a something I can google to know I am taking a picture of the right thing?

Would this be something coming from the wall or something internal to the machine? And if it was a loss of power, why would it only affect it in the small movements from home?

etpenn · February 5, 2025, 8:29pm

Here are the results of a print and cut test tonight. Provided is a video of the steps in lightburn I took as well as pictures illustrating the results. I have also provided images of my controller, and i think what is a close up of the stepper controls

I was able to do the test by entering into console $1=255 and then moving the laser head manually. I was able to do so with no different effort than if the machine was off, or prior to entering the command.

Ill be looking over the machine some more shortly

berainlb · February 5, 2025, 9:28pm

Nothing else. I was just documenting the question I had about 72DPI which you already answered.

Yes. That’s right. Setting $1 to 255 should keep the motors engaged at all times. That means you should face some opposition to moving the laser head to the point where it feels impossible to move. If you are able to move the laser head/gantry that could indicate that the motors are not providing enough torque.

If you take a clean picture of the whole board then the stepper drivers should be in good view. How they look could depend on each board and whether or not you have integrated drivers. They should be located physically to the XYZ stepper connectors but that’s not always the case.

Something internal to the machine if it’s about stepper driver configuration. Typically this would be tweaked using a potentiometer on the driver. It could also be that your motors are incapable of providing adequate torque at the microstepping level configured.

From the video it didn’t look like the issue was limited to home. When you were trying to move the laser head toward the front of the machine, there was a good bit of springback. It’s possible that larger movements can sufficiently overcome resistance but that smaller ones cannot but I’m only speculating. This hypothesis could be completely off.

I wouldn’t have expected no difference in effort. That’s throwing me off. Was this true for both X and Y orientations?

If so, can you try power cycling the machine, confirming that the configuration remains at $1=255 and retest? You can get the values by running $$ in Console.

Separate question, in one of the failed attempts using no scaling, will one of the cut shapes perfectly match the printed outline of another sticker? Trying to determine if the issue is only about alignment rather than scaling.

I don’t recognize this board at all. Do you know if this is the one that came with the machine? In any case, I suspect the stepper drivers are located underneath the blue heatsink. The two red circled portions of the image are what I believe are the potentiometers used to control current. Don’t make any changes at this point but this is what you would turn to make adjustments to current.

As an aside, do you know if this machine is still under warranty?

etpenn · February 5, 2025, 9:49pm

I will retest this and confirm.
When I retest I will -
Enter $1=25 into console. I will then attempt to move by hand both X and Y by hand.
Then I will enter $1=255 into console and atempt to move both X and Y by hand again and note any difference.

I will then power off the machine and power back on and enter $$ into the console and confirm $1 still eqauls 255, correct?

ill have to double check that, but it does seem as though the “shape” is correct, but not in the right location. I suppose it could be worth attempting with a simpler shape like a square to confirm this suspicion though right?

Provided is a picture of the same board installed into my machine. I bought this machine from a friend (I believe it is still under warrenty but I have not heard back from Monport in regards to being a second owner or something like that). Provided is also the text conversation I had with him, that sorta seems to be lining up with some of this stuff youre saying about provided power and such

berainlb · February 6, 2025, 4:32am

Yes. This is correct. I want to make sure the board is actually operating with that parameter. You may want to try other variations as well. The value provided is the number of milliseconds the motor should hold after a move before powering down. Default for yours is 25. 255 should be indefinite. So 254 would be .254 seconds. Try to see if you can tell any difference between settings.

This would work but if you could simply overlay a cutout on top of one of the other prints that could be good enough unless you’re looking at a sub-millimeter type of variation.

It’s just that if this machine is supposedly quite new I would expect it to work without fuss. You’re likely dealing with some sort of hardware issue which you might be able to work around but you shouldn’t have to.

Monport has had no end of niggling problems with their various boards. I’ve seen many systemic issues with variants of their boards and it seems instead of incrementally resolving issues they start over with a new board and introduce entirely new issues.

He may be referring to laser power, not necessarily power to the stepper drivers but can’t tell from context. You may want to clarify.

etpenn · February 6, 2025, 11:55am

I am going to attempt to run a print and cut with just some squares tonight. I will be able to see if with print and cuts it is still cutting dimensionally accurate and is simply out of position rather than scaled.

I wonder too, is there a test I could do to see if cuts made that are NOT print and cut are cutting locationally accurate? As far as I can tell, when I frame/send something from lightburn that is just a cut with no alignment needed, it is going in that exact location.

If i were to home my laser and set the corner of a sqared board right at my laser pointer and then draw a square say 50x50mm and then send a small circle to cut at that exact location that would indicate if non print and cut jobs are able to get into exact location right?

From everything I have done that is non print and cut so far, I have seen nothing to indicate anything but accuracy, and it was only until trying print and cuts did I notice the issue.

I suppose it may just come to the point that I have to concede defeat if this is already the second board this machine has had and now knowing that monport boards have a history of being not great. I got this machine at such a good deal, it would not be the end of the world, but at the same time, if working correctly it seems to be a good machine.