Did it twice but it doesn’t want to line up. 0,5-1,5 mm off.
I have two crosses 400mm apart to align with. Using 0,1mm steps to find the center. Maximum 0,2mm off but more likely 0,1mm accuracy. It seems that sometimes PNC works and somethimes not and I cant see why.
In what way is it off?
Can you upload the designs you’re using for this with a brief explanation of what you’re using print and cut for?
Its a oversized design so I have to move the workpiece. After moving and setting the PNC, when I try to continue cutting the design, it wont align the cut with the existing cut.
womens_face_tree_backup.lbrn2 (341.5 KB)
Can you explain your methodology.
Looking at the design it’s not apparent to me how you’ve setup the Print and Cut.
I have cut layer 00 and the crosses, layer 10. Then rotated the workpiece. Now I want to cut layer 01. Using the two crosses in the left down part of the workspace as target positions for PNC. Since I had this problems before, I learned the hard way not to thrush that it works, so I selected a small part of the design and changed to layer(15) with slow speed and only 2% power. That way I can visually see if the laser lines up with the current cut without leaving any burns. But its not aligning with the current cuts.
I have done the same way many times and sometimes its aligned and sometimes its not.
So you are attempting to actively toggle layers on and off, dynamically rotate and manually select which alignment markers you are using for each stage of the job?
That may be error prone and will be impossible to validate your process.
Can you pregenerate 2 completely separate .lbrn files that only contain the relevant design and alignment components necessary for those steps?
Also, as an aside, are you burning your alignment targets into visible areas of the work?
Based on your profile, it looks like you’re doing this on an xTool D1 Pro. Are you using the crosshairs for your Print and Cut alignment or the blue diode laser?
Not sure what you mean but I think no. How I do it is really simple and I dont know how else it would be done. I try to explain more. The design is divided into four pieces using cut shapes and each piece gets its own layer to easier handle and visibility. Cant quite use them without selecting some areas manually to reach everywhere, as you may see, and that is since access is more restricted to my laser now than when I made the design. Now I have to rotate the workpiece. Before I could just move the laser around without rotating the workpiece thats why the design is also rotated in LB to more easily see where it can reach. But its the same process as before.
However. The 00 layer and 10 is burned on the first run, which is 1 part of the design and all crosses you see(later in the process I will probably burn more crosses to use for next move of the workpiece). Also I burned as much of layer 03 as it could reach. Then workpiece was rotated and the design was rotated in LB, as you see it(easier to see where the laser will reach). Laser is turned off/on and homed(not necessary but for error exclusion) , laser is moved to one of the cosses, using the move tool, first target is set, laser moved to the next cross and second target is set. Align output to targets with no scaling. Then It should be ready to burn the next part, which is next to the already burned part, this time layer 01(or actually the parts of it that the laser reaches). But since I cant thrush PNC I select a small part of the design, and run it with only 2% power and really slow, to see how it aligns with the cuts it should follow. You can see the small part getting layer 15. It should line up to the cuts from layer 00 but was 0,5-1,5 mm off in the two attempts I have made.
If I understand you, Yes. But why?
They are burned on the workpiece but outside the final design once its cut out.
Yes xTool D1 pro 40W. I never use the crosshair, its turned off.
Since its so close, I dont think its wrong on the process. And much effort is used to find the center of the crosses so I dont think its the error either. And if I do it a third time it may be working, but I dont think its the way it should be.
Because if you’re actively toggling, selecting, and manipulating the design as you’re going through the process it’s impossible to know what you’ve actually done.
Simple example. The C10 layer you state has your alignment markers which you say you’re burning as part of the first step. However, the area covered by the markers is clearly larger than your addressable area. I assume this means you’re only burning some of them at a time and reference some of them at a time. But it’s not clear which and how you’re using them.
Since the issue you’re seeing is very specific I have to understand exactly what it is that you’re doing to be able to determine where exactly the anomaly is being introduced. General approach won’t sufficiently cover it.
Are you cutting out by hand? Or is there another step not apparent in the design?
And to confirm, you do not have a pointer offset configured in Edit->Device Settings?
It’s either going to be process, design, or a software issue. Just need to narrow down.
Are you using the wizard or are you manually going through each Print and Cut step?
Im not moving any part of the design or adding anything as I go along. The only thing im altering after the initial burn is where the design is splitted. For example I can merge a shape that was split in two, if it can be cut as one.
I’m only using layers in the design to easily see where its divided and for the crosses to be at a different power.
I use “Cut Selected Grapics” in the laser settings. Then select the part I want to cut and every layer is normally grouped so one click and its selected. However this time I had to ungroup to be able to select parts of the layer next to it, to be able to cut a bit more, before rotating the workpiece.
The crosses are as you say, not all burned at the same time. The ones I have used now is the one in the left middle and left down corner, which both were burned at the same time as layer C00. I have only made one initial burn and rotate once and now first PNC, which fails to align.
I’m not cutting anything by hand. The design is cut out by the laser and all the crosses are outside the design as you see.
The laser offset is turned toggled off in the settings.
Im not using the wizard, im manually setting the two target positions following by pressing Align output to targets(no scaling).
I think I have to make a video because its really simple and I have seen its being used by others. And as I said I can do the process multiple times, exactly the same but with different results.
I can understand the general approach that you’re taking based on your description. However, my point is that it’s not in a form that’s independently verifiable. It depends on you personally doing the right thing at the right moment.
There have been times where I’ve felt like alignment wasn’t correct after doing things manually as well as through the wizard. I generally attribute it to user error or something I’ve missed. However, it’s not impossible that there’s a bug somewhere but generally when repeating the same process and it works then that’s not as likely. Or the conditions to trigger the bug is more nuanced.
Ideally, if this were a bug, we’d be able to get the steps down to a repeatable condition.
However, as-is, it’s difficult to rule out process or design issues due to what I’ve explained.
Did it again and even bigger error.
I said I flipped the workpiece but i mean rotated.
Should this method not work? Cause sometimes it does and sometimes not. I dont see a easier or better way of doing this.
In principle Print and Cut is perfectly capable of doing what you want.
In the example in the video, are you saying that if you repeat the exact same process multiple times that eventually the alignment will be correct? Or was it consistently off?
Also, is the first alignment always incorrect?
One major concern I have with your workflow is that you are actively selecting and rotating the design in the workspace at different stages of the burn. This is potentially error prone. The possibility of accidentally moving a portion of the design is very high, especially while doing the target alignment since you’re changing move distance and such.
Consider at least locking all the shapes to prevent accidental movement.
I have used this method many times before and sometimes it got the alignment correct the first time, sometimes the second try. Many of the times when its been incorrect, the workpiece have been destroyed so I haven’t tried to align it again so I can’t say that its always working after retrying. This time I have tried 4 or 5 times and its been off every time.
Usually I have not rotated the design in LB, only the workpiece but Im pretty sure I have rotated in LB before as well. Since its rotated 90 degree, it would be pretty obvious if something in the design doesn’t move along but sure I can lock the design.
My concern is that im 100% sure i’m doing the same thing but the result is far from 100% the same. I simply can’t trust PNC. Now I might have ruined this piece as well since it can’t seem to align even after many attempts. And it have happened many times and i’m losing time, money and faith in PNC.
I can stop rotating the design in LB since its only to easily see where the laser reach but not necessary. But I have done that before and im 100% I will still have the same problem. Not every time, but too many times.
Frustrating. Please help me out.
I have used Print and Cut many times. On occasion I’ve run into a situation where my alignment seems off. Redoing has never failed to work correctly. I have always assumed this to mean that I’ve done something wrong but it’s possible there’s an issue with the feature.
This almost certainly means that there’s something wrong in the design or in the alignment. Take some measurements of the actual burn and compare it to the current design. Does everything line up perfectly?
Note that while there are many people reporting issues with Print and Cut on the forum, I’ve never once seen it end where the issue was in the feature. They’ve all been addressed through a workflow issue or something else.
This is what I was trying to point out in earlier posts.
Pre-create each section of the design in separate files. Double check that the alignment markers are consistent across the designs. Switch between designs for each section. This will make it so that you never have to dynamically change anything in the design and removes one potential error entry point.
I rotated the workpiece and design in LB 180 degree and used the two crosses there. It aligned pretty good, not perfect. I cut out the design and then I wanted to add two crosses to use as reference for next rotation. To get the laser close to its end of workspace but without risking to trigger the end stop, I used the Set laser position tool to go towards the edge in steps. I burned the crosses and then I saw that the design wasn’t cut all the way and I wanted to run another couple passes. This time it did not align with the newly made cut and I had to cancel the job! Thats definitely a bug in my opinion. Im sure if I had used the move command to get close to the edge it had not been a problem cutting another pass.
Almost aligning with first part of the design.
The bug!
If you can come up with a simple scenario that replicates the bug I will try to reproduce it.
The error did not replicate. Sorry but this is so frustrating. I don’t think I come any longer with this right now. I just have to continue and see if I can find out why the PNC is not performing as I like. If I find out anything new I will get back.
Thanks for you time and sorry for being a bit rude.
Is this a job you perform repeatedly or is this a one-off? If you do this repeatedly then perhaps a different system is in order.
Also, make sure your laser is working correctly outside of Print and Cut. Are you certain you’re not losing steps at any point in the burn?
This is a one off but similar oversized project will come. Normally I divide the project in layers so I don’t have to do anything more than select the layer, burn, move workpiece, set PNC, burn, repeat. But the design was upscaled without dividing the design for more moves since it was a one off.
However I found another thing I don’t understand.
I couldn’t align a line connecting with two already cut lines, using the crosses. So I tried to use where the two cuts end as target points for PNC. The first result was that the line were probably 50 mm off. Second and third try it doesn’t even want to send the job to the laser.
First off it says the object is outside the workspace, which I find really strange that it thinks cause the line is between the target points so it couldn’t be outside the laser range. See pictures
